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#92183 - Thu, 09 Jun 2005 04:35:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
1.Outside Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 1466
Loc: Birmingham
Quote:
Originally posted by The Voice [ of EV Radio ]well ... we can only speculate about the real reasons so far , but anyway ... let's jus' speculate that they a) don't have the time for what reason(s) soever or b) simply haven't answered in due time to the request to be considered anymore or c) asked for a headliner spot on the bill & wasn't considered to be THAT "big" by the "live 8" organizers then etc. ... still we simply don't know it & all that we can do is jus' speculate about it !!!
These reasons don't wash. If ANY of those were true then Geldof or the Live8 camp would have made that public when they were being criticised in the UK. Instead they've bumbled around a bit trying to think of reasons that don't stack up (as I have already pointed out).

BTW, this is not the first post where you have not so covertly accused me of meaning others, e.g. Cerise, when I am referring to you. No. It is clear from my posts that I have aimed my comments at you.

It's a childish tool in your continual attempts to get me banned.

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#92184 - Thu, 09 Jun 2005 04:37:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
1.Outside Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 1466
Loc: Birmingham
Quote:
Originally posted by Si_W:
Oh, and here's a thing, now we've established the 1.outside and olaf mutual appreciation society
Where was that established? Missed that one.

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#92185 - Thu, 09 Jun 2005 05:55:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
THE MACHMAN Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 144
Loc: Wimbledon, London
Quote:
Originally posted by 1.Outside:
Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
[b]Thirdly, If black music was good enough, it would win a Brit awards, black music is written for manly black people, just todays cultcure

lastly, I don't know many UK US rap artistes except for EMINEM and 50.cent and Dizze Rascal, I just have to listen to the drivel my 16 year old Eminem wanna be, listens too, thats bad enough banghead
Quite frankly, its shite
Well, I can see things are simple in your world. If women were good enough they would earn as much as men, if children from deprived backgrounds were good enough they'd all go to Oxford or Cambridge, if black people were good enough they wouldn't be lagging in education and employment.

If you don't listen to black British artists how can you comment on what they sing about? You said they sang about "guns, gangtas, drugs, N£$%^R this N&^%$"R that, M***A F***ER, and gangland shootings" yet you've never heard a word. Some sixth sense you have there.

I suggest you go and listen to some of the biggest selling artists in recent years, Ms Dynamite, and Jamelia perhaps.

These artists have easily sold more than many of the artists on the Live8 bill.[/b]
confused

Outside, calm down, don't judge me, you don't know Me, As far as I was aware Women and Black people are my equals, noone is better than Me and I'm no better than them, so back off with that Crud, I had a very bad childhood, which Im quite happy to talk about over a pint but I never went out and mugged someone or beat someone up and blamed it on my up bringing, they CHOOSE to live a life like that no one makes them.

If anyone want an decent education its up to them to get it, its there if they want it.
Black people should stop using their colour as an excuse

The problem with todays society is We still go by Colour, Creed and Gender. we all know This is wrong, I see a person not the colour.

I've been listening to black music since I was a so I know Black music very well, and I don't like it, its not a racial thing, its a matter of taste, nothing more

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#92186 - Thu, 09 Jun 2005 06:41:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
1.Outside Offline
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Registered: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 1466
Loc: Birmingham
Machman. I would like you to calm down. I am not calling you racist. I have not called Geldof or Live8 racist. I am simply raising issues. If my tone seems slightly exasperated, it's because of the ignorance of a particular poster. I do not mean to aim any of this exasperation at anyone else.

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
Outside, calm down, don't judge me, you don't know Me, As far as I was aware Women and Black people are my equals, noone is better than Me and I'm no better than them, so back off with that Crud
Maybe they're your equals but how does that explain why women earn less money than men for doing exactly the same job, why black people are, on average, more highly qualified than white people for the job they are doing? Do you honestly believe it's because they don't want a better job?

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
If anyone want an decent education its up to them to get it, its there if they want it.
Black people should stop using their colour as an excuse
When do you think their right to use this excuse ended? Was it the day slavery ended? Please, this is a serious question, try not to answer it with "here we go, he's on about slavery".

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
I see a person not the colour.
With all due respect, this cannot be true. When I walk into a room, I know who's black and who isn't.

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
I know Black music very well, and I don't like it
Isn't that like saying you don't like Europe? Since black music was the force behind most forms of modern music, this is a bit strange.

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#92187 - Thu, 09 Jun 2005 07:32:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
quietman Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 19:00:00
Posts: 108
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I really think some starving child is not going to worry about who the hell is on stage and the color of their skin. This is a fantastic idea and it is welcome thing to have in this day and age. According to the website, this is all you have to do:

1. Watch LIVE 8 on tv and online
2. Go To Edinburgh for July the 6th
3. Send a Friend to Edinburgh
4. The Long Walk to Justice
5. Wear a White Band to show your support
6. Send in a picture and join the G8 Gallery

Music is great regardless of color
If money is needed, I will gladly boycott Brad Pitt's new screen drama and send the fundage!

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#92188 - Thu, 09 Jun 2005 07:41:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Si_W Offline
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Registered: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:00:00
Posts: 4056
Loc: UK
And you know a DVD is coming at some point too...

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#92189 - Thu, 09 Jun 2005 07:53:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
THE MACHMAN Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 144
Loc: Wimbledon, London
Quote:
Originally posted by 1.Outside:
Machman. I would like you to calm down. I am not calling you racist. I have not called Geldof or Live8 racist. I am simply raising issues. If my tone seems slightly exasperated, it's because of the ignorance of a particular poster. I do not mean to aim any of this exasperation at anyone else.

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
[b]Outside, calm down, don't judge me, you don't know Me, As far as I was aware Women and Black people are my equals, noone is better than Me and I'm no better than them, so back off with that Crud
Maybe they're your equals but how does that explain why women earn less money than men for doing exactly the same job, why black people are, on average, more highly qualified than white people for the job they are doing? Do you honestly believe it's because they don't want a better job?

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
If anyone want an decent education its up to them to get it, its there if they want it.
Black people should stop using their colour as an excuse
When do you think their right to use this excuse ended? Was it the day slavery ended? Please, this is a serious question, try not to answer it with "here we go, he's on about slavery".

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
I see a person not the colour.
With all due respect, this cannot be true. When I walk into a room, I know who's black and who isn't.

Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
I know Black music very well, and I don't like it
Isn't that like saying you don't like Europe? Since black music was the force behind most forms of modern music, this is a bit strange.[/b]
To answer your 1.st question, My wife on average is on more money than Me, I work in retail and all the women are payed excactly the same rate as Men, infact ther are Female managers who are the same grade as Me are on more money than Me, i can't speak for any other company, just my own.

if at any time I've had to deal or reprimand a black colleague and i'll do it fair but firm, if they don't have a leg to stand on, they will say "Your only doing this because i'm black". or words to that effect, which really annoys Me, it makes my blood boil,or someone has said to me that I had a better education because I was White thats what i mean when i said thay should stop using their colour as an excuse.

If you see a black person and not just a person, then thats your problem not mine.

My music is all electronic, Kraftwerk, Numan, ultravox, et al, i'm sure the other bands and musicans I like have been influanced by past black artists, that doesn't mean i have to like it.
I got into Ultravox and David Bowie through Gary Numan
I don't like black music the same as i don't like Country and Western, Why do you have a problem with that.

Don't worry geez I'm cool I like heated debates like this,
and that beer is still on offer excited

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#92190 - Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:02:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4576
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Mines's a pint o Deuchers IPA wink

It's taken me longer to read that last lot than oor Midge's Biography! shock

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#92191 - Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:16:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
THE MACHMAN Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 144
Loc: Wimbledon, London
Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepwalker:
Mines's a pint o Deuchers IPA wink

It's taken me longer to read that last lot than oor Midge's Biography! shock
Which was the better read? :p

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#92192 - Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:11:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Nige K. Offline
Pass level: Promoter

Registered: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 230
Loc: East Yorkshire
Crikey! To think the tabloids are only interested in getting Status Quo to play. It's an awkward subject like many of todays social issues (braile used in squash courts, oh yes 'East Riding of Yorkshire Council' - think about it). However regarding Black British Artists at the moment with world wide fame is rather a different subject. Dizee Rascal, Jamelia no - On a world wide scale 'Maxi Jazz' of Faithless Top Bloke, fantastic live (get em on Bob), Kele from 'Bloc Party.'
Maybe I'm wrong '1 Outside', but the event is about raising awareness of POVERTY of which far too many people suffer, black and white. At the end of the day The Continent of Africa has been ignored for far too long, too many countries have been happy to accept money for guns, guns, guns, and more guns. These countries and the world has to be made aware of what they are doing and offer help rather than destruction. So if U2 and Coldplay are the biggest bands in the world then so be it, the message about POVERTY may reach out to more people, than if Dizee Rascal was the main artist.
I've noticed nobody from the planet Zog has been included on the bill - this is an outrage -
and where is Joe Dolces mate 'Crazy Frog.'
POVERTY MUST STOP

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#92193 - Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:56:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
SlowMo' Offline
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Registered: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:00:00
Posts: 793
Loc: West Sussex
...I've made a little brown fish!! bemused

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#92194 - Sat, 11 Jun 2005 16:28:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Mark999 Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 101
Loc: Romford
Perhaps someone should inform black bands that having a benefit concert for Africa is not copyrited by Saint Bob. They could do it now or better still they could have done it years ago! Pity most were too busy for Live Aid until it became a good publicity stunt. With all the black muslims about you would think a few wealthy arab countries would help Africa out instead of raiding villages for slaves! Leave it to good old England to lead the way and pay the most and get slagged off. No-one on these forums can really know why there are no black bands in this concert so why have a discussion when nobody knows. As for highly qualified black workers, the N.H.S, Police Army etc bend over backwards to scrape them through training with the government, as in the U.S, forcing companies to hire blacks over whites. Scream racism in this country and you get away with anything, unless you're white. Black people do well enough in this country without wingeing whites 'defending' them. You guys ring Police recruiting and you will be told they are only recruiting ethnic minorites which of course is 'positive descrimination' so it's ok, unless you're a white male of course.

Olaf, you are taking this pointless discussion far too seriously and I suggest you ignore it and continue with your EV Radio show........ at least you are creating something.

Bola....... you have made 2 posts on this entire site, both the same one and neither involving Ultravox. You've done your bit in the war on racism so now you can spread your sad views to other sites and hope someone actually bothers to answer you. You could email Bob or Midge but you probably know they would ignore you. What's your favourite Ultravox track?

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#92195 - Sun, 12 Jun 2005 06:04:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Mark999 Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 101
Loc: Romford
Quote:
Originally posted by SlowMo':
...I've made a little brown fish!! bemused
You may regret that........... they are very hard to release into the wild.

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#92196 - Sun, 12 Jun 2005 06:48:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Sonja Offline
Pass level: Promoter

Registered: Sat, 29 May 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 209
Loc: Lochaber no more
Gosh its been a busy wee forum. I've been away for quite a while and thought I'd just have a quick peek in but its taken a whole bag of jelly beans and a chicken sandwich (had to cook the chicken first) to read through that lot.

I shouldn't really add fuel to the fire but I do think that the point of Live8 is being lost by some people who are posting. Poverty affects B & W, male and female and as one who has worked in some of the most deprived areas of the UK I believe it really doesn't matter where the money comes from as long it goes to the right place (which certainly isn't always the case).

BTW: I am a woman and due to my experience earn more than most of my male colleagues. However I find it quite ironic that earning power was even mentioned in this thread when it is the greed of mankind that keeps the poor in poverty.

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#92197 - Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:09:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
THE MACHMAN Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 144
Loc: Wimbledon, London
Quote:
Originally posted by Sonja:

BTW: I am a woman and due to my experience earn more than most of my male colleagues. However I find it quite ironic that earning power was even mentioned in this thread when it is the greed of mankind that keeps the poor in poverty.
See, another one, I'm in the wrong job. lmao

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#92198 - Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:08:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Sonja Offline
Pass level: Promoter

Registered: Sat, 29 May 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 209
Loc: Lochaber no more
Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by Sonja:
[b]
BTW: I am a woman and due to my experience earn more than most of my male colleagues. However I find it quite ironic that earning power was even mentioned in this thread when it is the greed of mankind that keeps the poor in poverty.
See, another one, I'm in the wrong job. lmao [/b]
Maybe you should try being a woman for a day wink

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#92199 - Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:00:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
SlowMo' Offline
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Registered: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:00:00
Posts: 793
Loc: West Sussex
icky icky icky Perish the thought of it... Can you imagine, all those disgusting men leering as I walk down the road, getting wolf whistled at and generally abused.. No thanks! You have no idea what we 'ladies' have to put up with! wink

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#92200 - Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:38:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Lavaocean Offline
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Registered: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 1685
Loc: Barcelona
Hmmmnn... Some of them are very nice though...

Hello Sonja - nice to have you back. Hope your removal went fine and you finished your paper in time etc.

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#92201 - Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:53:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Sonja Offline
Pass level: Promoter

Registered: Sat, 29 May 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 209
Loc: Lochaber no more
Quote:
Originally posted by SlowMo':
icky icky icky Perish the thought of it... Can you imagine, all those disgusting men leering as I walk down the road, getting wolf whistled at and generally abused.. No thanks! You have no idea what we 'ladies' have to put up with! wink
That sounds terrible....thank god that sort of thing never happens to me wink

Lava....thanks honey all went well and I am now happily living back in civilisaton after a four year absence and completed my post grad which makes me fully qualified to do who knows what lurve

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#92202 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:11:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
THE MACHMAN Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 144
Loc: Wimbledon, London
Quote:
Originally posted by Sonja:
Quote:
Originally posted by THE MACHMAN:
[b]
Quote:
Originally posted by Sonja:
[b]
BTW: I am a woman and due to my experience earn more than most of my male colleagues. However I find it quite ironic that earning power was even mentioned in this thread when it is the greed of mankind that keeps the poor in poverty.
See, another one, I'm in the wrong job. lmao [/b]
Maybe you should try being a woman for a day wink [/b]
I do but only at weekends lmao

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#92203 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:01:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
zenman Offline
Pass level: Press

Registered: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 94
Loc: Germany
Hi, been reading your posts for a bit...just came across this article, maybe it gives a little more insight...as to the discussion of Black Artists being featured on Live 8 or not...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds21780.html

It seems that they couldn't make it? banghead confused

or were rejected...

http://pub3.bravenet.com/news/247150063/45056/1%5C%22

Anyway I think as previous posts said, it's not about being "black or white" but raising awareness of global poverty with a focus on African countries (as they seem to be the worst off).

I could have imagined a WOMAD-type artist playing at Edinburgh though...the only information on who's playing there you'll get from the press...

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#92204 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:03:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Lavaocean Offline
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Registered: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 1685
Loc: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally posted by zenman:
Anyway I think as previous posts said, it's not about being "black or white"
Seen and judged from a WHITE perspective, this may be true. Alas, it is perfectly understandible that seen from a BLACK perspective, it may be offending not to have black artists performing.

Unfortunately, we are used to see in white and therefore judge from our mediocre point of view.

OK - let's hope we have a mature and intelligent discussion about this today - without abuse and insults please. I am sure it is possible.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

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#92205 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:10:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Havocman Offline
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Registered: Thu, 12 May 2005 19:00:00
Posts: 2775
Loc: Moving westwards as soon as po...
Personally, I'm not sure how an organisation such as BandAid/Live 8 that has been working towards helping a largely black continent can be accused of being racist. kiss

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#92206 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:42:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Lavaocean Offline
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Registered: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 1685
Loc: Barcelona
Ah - I totally agree here! smile

And of course we all know that you cannot please 100% of the population.

etc. etc.

(Who TF was calling it racist?!) Blimey!

evil

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#92207 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:24:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Mr. Weirdo Offline
Congratulations on your 1,000th post!

Registered: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 1000
Loc: land of the lost souls ...
Quote:
Originally posted by zenman:
I could have imagined a WOMAD-type artist playing at Edinburgh though...the only information on who's playing there you'll get from the press...
well ... afaik , youssou n'dour can be called "a WOMAD-type artist" & - imho - perfectly represents a certain part of the ( black ) african community in edinburgh !!!

of course there will still be some people , who'll ask , why he or some other black artists aren't playin' in london then , but is that really of any importance concernin' the whole matter of what "live 8" stands for ??? confused2

fyi : here's a quite interestin' link to an article about black artists @ "live 8" : http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050607/ennew_afp/afpentertainmentg8_050607185434

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#92208 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:36:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Mr. Weirdo Offline
Congratulations on your 1,000th post!

Registered: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 1000
Loc: land of the lost souls ...
Quote:
Originally posted by Lavaocean:
(Who TF was calling it racist?!) Blimey!
dear isabel ,

please don't make the same mistake again & contradict yourself here once more !!! :rolleyes:

u DEFINITELY know , who called "live 8" racist ... but i really DON'T want to go there again & can only hope that u'll also be smart enough not to do it !!! *indeed_still_hopeful_look*

i suppose that some of us know by now , what we did wrong most recently & therefore won't repeat the same mistakes again , won't we !? confused2

anyway ... thanx a lot in advance for - hopefully - stayin' reasonable this time then !!!

- olaf , "the voice ( of 'ev radio' )"

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#92209 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:34:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
zenman Offline
Pass level: Press

Registered: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 94
Loc: Germany
Thank you, Olaf, for the link! -

I think this article clears things up a bit more. Fresh from the press so to speak... laugh smile

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4094482.stm

To Isabel,
As I am white I can probably only view things from a more or less white perspective (or Western perhaps) but I'm also trying to see as much of theirs as possible. So will probably many younger people going to the gigs, and hopefully they might remember them as we do with Live Aid one day? I like the combination of being able to enjoy yourselves and changíng things for the better along the way...well, hopefully!

Anyway, I really welcome the above concert in Cornwall, I think it's the perfect place! I once saw Yungshen Lhamo, the Tibetan singer perform and she was just so brilliant (a WOMAD artist). Also the Blind Boys from Alabama were hilarious... excited

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#92210 - Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:00:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
1.Outside Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 1466
Loc: Birmingham
Quote:
Originally posted by The Voice ( of EV Radio ):

u DEFINITELY know , who called "live 8" racist
Who was it and can you post the exact words they used?

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#92211 - Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:45:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Mr. Weirdo Offline
Congratulations on your 1,000th post!

Registered: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 1000
Loc: land of the lost souls ...
Quote:
Originally posted by 1.Outside:
Who was it and can you post the exact words they used?
for those of u , who already can't or won't remember anymore : it was this guy called bola , who posted two times almost the same "diatribe" here in the forum , of which u can read one @ http://www.Ultravox.org.uk/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=34;t=000005

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#92212 - Thu, 16 Jun 2005 01:28:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Cerise Offline

Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:00:00
Posts: 4383
Loc: Bristol, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by zenman:
Also the Blind Boys from Alabama were hilarious... excited
Ahhh, I saw them support Peter Gabriel - they were BRILLIANT! laugh

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#92213 - Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:12:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Lavaocean Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 1685
Loc: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally posted by zenman:
To Isabel,
As I am white I can probably only view things from a more or less white perspective (or Western perhaps) but I'm also trying to see as much of theirs as possible. So will probably many younger people going to the gigs, and hopefully they might remember them as we do with Live Aid one day? I like the combination of being able to enjoy yourselves and changíng things for the better along the way...well, hopefully!

Anyway, I really welcome the above concert in Cornwall, I think it's the perfect place! I once saw Yungshen Lhamo, the Tibetan singer perform and she was just so brilliant (a WOMAD artist). Also the Blind Boys from Alabama were hilarious... excited
Hello zenman!

Glad you enjoyed Yungshen Lhamo so much – it sounds great!

Actually I came across the black/white PERSPECTIVE theme in film theory with the amazingly wise Prof. Dr. Möhrmann, and when I read your post yesterday, it reminded me of it. smile

We then analysed and studied a few films from this particular point of view - and the result was amazing. Take the example of Percy Adlon's Badgad Café, for instance (in Germany it had the title Out Of Rosenheim ). First impulse would be to think of it as a comedy, very cute n funny, ah, that voluptuous, clumsy, repressed German (well, Bavarian) woman stranded in that freaky microcosmos and slowly letting go, discovering her sexuality and finding her true self.

When Prof. Dr. Möhrmann pointed out that THAT film had caused mass protests amongst coloured people when it had been released 10 years before, we were all quite surprised. The narration of the film had been accused of being racist. And why – because the dominant character of Marianne Sägebrecht had been seen and interpreted as the colonialist with almost Nazi features who arrives at a peaceful universe and starts “cleaning up”, being totally patronizing, arrogant and intolerant, “educating” the inhabitants, teaching order and discipline, and gradually conquering the whole place until becoming its centre. 1)

The amount of literature on the subject was also considerable. Of course, this point of view is equally valid as that of a white persons. As I have never been black, I cannot put myself into the position of a black person and therefore, I cannot judge their opinion or if and how and why that person feels offended about something n particular. Everyone has a right to an opinion and this is to be respected. And this is also my reason for appreciating 1. Outside’s sharing his opinion in this particular thread. Or even Bola’s (the fictitious member, LOL). Because I learnt from it again, I became conscious of something that in our daily lives is taken too much for granted (the seeing white). I don’t know about any of you, but where I grew up (in West of Germany) and also where I am currently living (North-East of Spain) and forever, there are hardly black people.

As for Live 8, personally, and with all due respect, I don’t give a sh*te who is going to perform or not, honestly. Someone is organising an event, it’s not mine, so why should I be telling them whom to invite. I wish the event all the best and may it reach all its objectives. May people enjoy every single minute of, smoke maría and drink a lot of booze, and make love etc. laugh

Having said this, I totally understand and respect why someone may be upset by the fact that originally (?) no black artists were to participate. And 1. Outside is – from my point of view - perfectly right by indirectly pointing out that SOMEBODY should have taken into account the fact that if black artists are absent from a charity event regarding the prosperity of black countries, a considerable part of the population (?) could be upset...

However, glad to read about Youssou N’Dour taking part.

Haha! If it was MY event, I would have Manu Chao performing during 3 hours non-stop again! What better worldwide known artist to represent Human Rights? wink

Zenman – BTW: my final exam (oral) with Prof. Dr. Möhrmann was incredible! I never felt so much at ease at an exam. It was like having coffee & cake with your elderly aunt. Amazing how some people change your life. smile

DougG – This was also where we analysed Mildred Pierce... I have never come across anyone who actually KNOWS this film - apart from you, that is... smile

Love
Isabel

1) I will politely renounce from drawing parallels to a particular person in this forum, of course.

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#92214 - Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:43:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Lavaocean Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 1685
Loc: Barcelona
Ah - something else: if anyone disagrees with the contents of my posts, please reveal it on the forum instead of sending me e-mails containing primitive insults and signs of mental instability (I am simply not qualified enough to handle it). Because this is why we're here, remember? And "we" don't want to commit the same errors over and over again until turning into a complete clown, do we?

Thank you for being empathic and RESPECTing my wishes.

Regards
Isabel

Sorry Chappie - I didn't mean to insult your avatar... frown

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#92215 - Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:44:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
zenman Offline
Pass level: Press

Registered: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 94
Loc: Germany
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Lavaocean:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by zenman:
<strong> To Isabel,
As I am white I can probably only view things from a more or less white perspective (or Western perhaps) but I'm also trying to see as much of theirs as possible. So will probably many younger people going to the gigs, and hopefully they might remember them as we do with Live Aid one day? I like the combination of being able to enjoy yourselves and changíng things for the better along the way...well, hopefully!

Anyway, I really welcome the above concert in Cornwall, I think it's the perfect place! I once saw Yungshen Lhamo, the Tibetan singer perform and she was just so brilliant (a WOMAD artist). Also the Blind Boys from Alabama were hilarious... lmao confused

But anyway I think that's the overall "problem" with charity of any kind, being in a way patronizing to the "needy". I think - to speak from my white intellectual mind - the fact that we are having this discussion at all shows that Africa has grown out of the need to be patronized IN OUR WHITE / WESTERN MINDS. I'm sure that is the reason why polticians like Tony Blair stood up and tried to gain debt relief because they saw a chance that Africa has changed, being less involved with dictatorships and more and more democracies springing up. But hey, I'm no expert on the subject, just read a bit into the Commission for Africa's report...

Interesting that a certain Scot (springing from the fringe of GB) seems to have gone for African artists in the first place but the idea was then rejected by Bob & Co., the reason being "too few African artists are known in China and people there, seeing artists they don't know, would therefore switch off television...."

Interesting, too, that all the other gigs are being broadcast EXCEPT of course the one with the African artists in Cornwall. Seems though that Womad are taking part in Edinburgh and that it's going to be a concert with an African touch there! wink :rolleyes:

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#92216 - Thu, 23 Jun 2005 04:29:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
KT Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:00:00
Posts: 117
Loc: Arlington, Massachusetts
I pulled this off of Arianna Huffington's Blog. It seemed relevant to the discussion. The author is a visiting professor of Art & Public Policy at New York University.

06.22.2005 Karen Finley
LIve 8 /Bob Geldof - White Band Day
Live 8 is a well intentioned, global event slated for early July. The international concert series will coincide with this year’s G-8 summit meeting. Sir Bob Geldof, the event organizer and creator of the successful 1985 Live Aid Concert, is concerned with raising consciousness and not raising money. Already there has been debt forgiveness for some of Africa’s poorest countries.

Yet, there has been criticism of Live 8 for not including a significant representation of African artists. The musical lineup is accused of center stage, dominant culture gazing while denying exposure for African artists. If Sir Geldoff is true to his word that Live 8 is not about the money but raising awareness of Africa then why aren’t we seeing more African Artists share the stage with the Empire?

I visited the Live 8 website, live8live.com. The Live 8 website starts with a guitar as Live 8 emblem with a number 8 encircling the neck of the guitar. The body of the guitar is the continent of Africa. Clever?

Looking further at the LIVE 8 website I found the heading, “What’s it all about.” It reads:
“If your country is not listed above, please visit www.whiteband.org for a list of current partner campaigns.

I am not joking. The website reads www.whiteband.org. So I link to the site. It reads:

“Wear a white band. Wear a simple white band and show the world that you want action, not just words.”

There is more: “July 1- International white band day. Remember to wear your white band on July 1, The first Global White Day.”

White Band dot org? From this subtext Live 8 sounds like DeBeers Diamonds giving an engagement ring to South Africa with a card that reads: A diamond is forever. And Rock n’ Roll is here to stay.

Rock n’ Roll owes its roots to African music. The selected Live 8 bands should be on their hands and knees in gratitude for their accumulated personal wealth which was culturally exported from Africa. Yet, Africa does not benefit financially from the intellectual property loss of their cultural legacy. I suggest that ASCAP and BMI provide real retributions. All recorded Rock n’ Roll publishing would give a percentage to Africa as a royalty.

Lets turn this “consiousness raising” around. Instead of an international event being an opportunity to see “poor, in need” Africa, the event could be a global THANK YOU. Thankyou, Africa for your contributions to world culture. The musicians would play in homage to African musical traditions using musical diplomacy side by side/onstage with African musicians.

But our debt to African culture should not stop with music. African Art, while rarely given exhibition space in Contemporary or Modern Museums, are traditionally exhibited in Anthropology settings such as Natural History Museums. Picasso, Braque, European descent Art Masters (interesting word) appropriated the tradition of African imagery into Modern Art. The birth of Modern art and its departure from realism owes much to this continent. We need to rethink, relook at Africa as a powerful continent that contributes rather than a needy, dependent continent.

We are the ones who have a cultural, unpaid debt to Africa. Perhaps our debt can be forgiven, cancelled as well by G8. But then again, as Sir Geldof reminds us, this isn’t about the money. It’s about consciousness raising. And the buck stops here.

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#92217 - Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:33:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Igor Kalashnikov Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Sun, 15 May 2005 19:00:00
Posts: 22
Loc: Moscow
My point then would be march on G8 itself and MAKE them change; with people power. They have supposedly been elected to represent the people's wishes anyway.

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#92218 - Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:35:00 Re: Live8 and black artists (UK)
Igor Kalashnikov Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Sun, 15 May 2005 19:00:00
Posts: 22
Loc: Moscow
In our "liberal" society you are depicted as mentally unstable if u try to take matters into your own hands; could this be at least partly because you are not engaging the very expensive services of "professionals" ??!!

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