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#68677 - Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:25:00 Ideas for the next competition...
tim b Offline
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Registered: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 169
Loc: Manchester, uk
Cerise and Rob, an idea for the next competition.....

In light of all the confusion about what exactly defines an "Ultravox" song, why don't you do what a lot of fan forum "cover" competitions do and limit the submissions to tracks from just one album, or even one song. You could do that with all the sections - even the "original" section, where people could do a song that would hypothetically fit onto a particular album.

What does everyone else think? Which album or track would you start with? Not many of this year's entries (if any) were from the "Pink Thing", so how about starting with that one?

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#68678 - Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:44:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Flip Martian Offline
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My guess is you may get less entries if you limit what people can do for an entry? I thought the version of Dream On entered this year was really good but I can imagine most people would say "ugh, don't wanna!" if that album was chosen as the source material for entries. And I guess others may feel like that about other albums too. Happy to be proved wrong though! smile

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#68679 - Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:46:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
1.Outside Offline
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Loc: Birmingham
I personally think the 'sounds most like Ultravox' criterion is a mistake. I know that it provides a way of making a semi-independent judgement of the tracks but it also creates bit of a straightjacket. It could be one criterion but I'm not sure it's even the most important one. The reason I liked Maurizio's version of Lament so much is that I feel that one even added something to the original. That's hard to explain but it's how it felt to me.

I think the competition is just fine as it is, I'd just remove that criterion.

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#68680 - Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:01:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Fredrik Offline
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Registered: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 69
Loc: Sweden
It would of course be possible for the judges to select a a particular song as a new category to the competition: "Best version of Passing Strangers" or something similar.

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#68681 - Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:05:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
BlueVision Offline
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Registered: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:00:00
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Loc: Berlin, Germany
Quote:
Originally posted by 1.Outside:
I personally think the 'sounds most like Ultravox' criterion is a mistake.
Well, I would not say it's a mistake. But 1.Outside got it I think. He's right in thinking. So why not call this 'sounds most like an original'? The rules are refined already, maybe not written, maybe it needs also some more adjustment. We all know the discussing... For sure, I don't want to see a song from Smokie or Baccara there. But every piece of music somehow related should be allowed. The problem with the music is, it is universal and not every time it fits into a special category...
So there is then also much more room for songs, also for solo-stuff (Ure, Currie, Foxx!!). Or is this going to far away then?
Good point and worth a discussion I think. I really would not like to see it splitted into album-categories. Flip is right, and his exmaple with Dream On is spot on. But if enhanced in the other way, we need somehow some changes and adjustments in categories. What do you think?

BTW: Pls. don't tell me that Smokie or Baccara did pre-acts to some gigs and there would be somehow a relation. Then it is time for some "german volksmusic" too...

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#68682 - Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:36:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Cerise Offline

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Yes, I agree that the criteria need re-wording to avoid confusion - we're discussing it in the mods' forum at the moment.

I think Warren's intention in the wording of the Best Cover section was indeed to produce covers which most sound like the band - I thought this would limit creativity too, but it has been shown this year that entrants into that category pride themselves in how close they can get to the Ultravox sound, so... I think it should stay, but be clarified. Perhaps 'Best Cover: A completely new recording which sounds most like the Ultravox [or related] version'.

The intention next year (currently) is to keep 'Best Cover' as above and separate out 'Re-cover' from the 'Re-mix' category. A 'Re-cover' would be the entrants' interpretation of an original version, which should have a completely new sound. A 'Re-mix' should use original elements or samples to make a new version. 'Most Unexpected Cover' would still be the most out of the blue, off-the-wall versions with a completely new sound.

Something like that... any thoughts..?

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#68683 - Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:39:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
1.Outside Offline
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Sounds good. Personally I still wouldn't place the requirement on entrants to the Best Cover section that the entries should sound as close the Ultravox version as possible. Maybe Warren was concerned somebody was going to do a better version wink . However, if the entrants are happy and enjoy having that aim then who am I to argue.

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#68684 - Tue, 21 Mar 2006 02:06:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Cerise Offline

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Quote:
Originally posted by 1.Outside:
Sounds good. Personally I still wouldn't place the requirement on entrants to the Best Cover section that the entries should sound as close the Ultravox version as possible.
Hence the 'Re-cover' section - you can do a cover of the original with no restraints whatsoever...

I don't know, what does everyone feel? Keep the 'sounds the most like Ultravox' Best Cover section, or just make it free-for all, cover it in any style you like? Thing is, if anyone does cover it as in, makes it sound as much like the original, it would likely be at a disadvantage marks-wise...

Hmm, a poll may be required, methinks!

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#68685 - Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:39:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
DaveGlover Offline
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Registered: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 20:00:00
Posts: 7
Loc: Portsmouth, UK
Hi!

I'm surprised and very pleased with my mention in bubbling under section! Thank you very much for that!

I had great fun recording a version of Slow Motion, and it's inspired me to work on a lot more music since. My only regret is not buying the John Foxx Golden Section CD a few weeks earlier, so I could have heard the guitar part more clearly! Still, that'll teach me!

Thank you Cerise and Rob for a great competition and for including my track. And thanks to everyone that listened to it. Watching the counter tick was exciting!

I'll work on the next one now!

Thanks!

Dave.

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#68686 - Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:16:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Cerise Offline

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Thanks Dave! laugh

Don't forget to vote in the competition poll, we're trying to get a feel for opinions on various aspects of the comp to help us shape it next year.

Cheers m'dear!
Cerise.

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#68687 - Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:23:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
clermac Offline
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Registered: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 20:00:00
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Loc: Weyhe, Germany
I just thought about a CD-compilation of all these songs. so if the copyright question is answered, there could be a way.
there are lots of cover cds out there, i.e. from Depeche mode, the Cure, New order ...
why shouldn't it be possible here?
what do you think about it?

btw.: I would do the mastering (for free of course).

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#68688 - Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:45:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
BlueVision Offline
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Nice idea, I personally realized it already for personal use. Just beside the copyright. The next question is, which tracks are worth to get a go for the CD and which tracks getting a "sorry, it just bubbled under"... Who should judge this? I see more problems with this...
To be fair with this to everybody you have to generate a "cover's-discography" on CD and then it gets very fast a set of 10 discs... eek !!
Other way is to release this in compressed format, as an MP3-CD, this is then not playable everywhere and so on...

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#68689 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:03:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
electro80's uk2 Offline
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Registered: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:00:00
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Loc: merseyside
i personally think that all these ideas are great provided there is a clear explanation on the rules, but i think that it would be better if it was limited to the selected album or albums i.e not a song 1, 2 or three members worked on but just an ultravox song, maybe the others would have there own catagory i.e best ultravox member etc... after all of the confusion from the last comp i would be grateful if the rules were clearly stated and adhered too as i think it is a great and flattering idea to the said artistes.
many thanx and best wishes
phill
electro 80's

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#68690 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 00:37:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Sleepwalker Offline
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Personally I think the comp is run just fine the way it is, although there have been some great ideas for next year.

Monument will probably enter next year..(hopefully), then we'll bungle Mike L into the back of a transit & hide him somewhere until the winner is announced! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! evil

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#68691 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 05:06:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
alles klar Offline
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Registered: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:00:00
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Loc: London
I think the comp should be broad enough to capture the range of creativity out there but narrow enough to have similar themes - some want to get as close to the original as possible, others want to interpret the original and others want to remix it etc. I think the categories are fine and encapsulate all the different offerings, but I think the 'most unexpected ...' category should be re-named 'Ultravox vs Whacky Races', but that's just me nutjob

To Dave Glover - your cover was a personal highlight of the comp, so thank you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

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#68692 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:29:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
PW Offline
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Registered: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 15
Loc: Central coast California
Quote:
Originally posted by Cerise:
Perhaps 'Best Cover: A completely new recording which sounds most like the Ultravox [or related] version'.

The intention next year (currently) is to keep 'Best Cover' as above and separate out 'Re-cover' from the 'Re-mix' category. A 'Re-cover' would be the entrants' interpretation of an original version, which should have a completely new sound. A 'Re-mix' should use original elements or samples to make a new version. 'Most Unexpected Cover' would still be the most out of the blue, off-the-wall versions with a completely new sound.

Something like that... any thoughts..?
My suggestions, which are very close to yours, Mizz Cerise:

Best Re-Mix: a reconstruction and presentation of the original recording -- tracks, vocals -- in a new and interesting way;

Best Re-Creation: an entirely new recording that faithfully replicates the original;

Best Cover: an entirely new recording which captures the emotional impact of the original song from a different angle; and

Best Re-visioning: an entirely new recording which gives that "Woah! Never thought of THAT approach!" experience.

Ta da!

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#68693 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:39:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Broadwave Offline
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Registered: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 147
Loc: Manchester
Quote:
Originally posted by clermac:
I just thought about a CD-compilation of all these songs. so if the copyright question is answered, there could be a way.
Hi, I suggested and looked into this last year.

For once I'm going to be serious, because it's a serious matter!! (no bouncy emoticons or elipsesisisis!)

First of all you'll need to contact MCPS/PRS. You will be able to get a license form from them to release cover versions but, assuming you plan to release 500 CD's, the fee is calculated on 8% of the wholesale price per track i.e 500 CD's wholesaleing @ 5 per copy = 2500, 8% of that is Aghh, too early in the morning, and I'm crap at maths, but you get the gist.

Sorry to say this, but IMHO it's not a viable option.

Most genuine Ultravox(!) fans already know about this site, and therefore have access to the comp tracks for no cost, and as BlueVision mentioned, it's easy to burn your own CD or pop them into your (generic term only folks) iPod.

I think we should keep this (the covers comp) to ourselves and not attract too much attention, as the consequences could be quite dire.

Hope I haven't taken the wind out of your sails.

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#68694 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:49:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Broadwave Offline
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Registered: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:00:00
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Loc: Manchester
Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepwalker:
Monument will probably enter next year..
eek Oh, bloody hell... I'll just give up now then shall I?

biglaugh

Perverse thought of the day... Ultravox secretly re-form and submit a track for the comp and don't get placed nutjob

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#68695 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:59:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Si_W Offline
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Registered: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:00:00
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mo's Lotion:
Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepwalker:
[b]Monument will probably enter next year..
eek Oh, bloody hell... I'll just give up now then shall I?

biglaugh
[/b]
If we could change the rules so you had to post your entry in, you wouldn't have a thing to worry about...
wink wink laugh nutjob

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#68696 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:35:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
electro80's uk2 Offline
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Registered: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:00:00
Posts: 69
Loc: merseyside
Quote:
Originally posted by Mo's Lotion:
Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepwalker:
[b]Monument will probably enter next year..
eek Oh, bloody hell... I'll just give up now then shall I?

biglaugh

Perverse thought of the day... Ultravox secretly re-form and submit a track for the comp and don't get placed nutjob [/b]
that really had me rolling around on the floor that. good one that.

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#68697 - Wed, 22 Mar 2006 23:33:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
tim b Offline
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Registered: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:00:00
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Loc: Manchester, uk
Quote:
You will be able to get a license form from them to release cover versions
Seems like you need a licence to HOST cover versions, too....

Cover versions...very important (about half way down the page).

I've posted my suggestions elsewhere for alternatives to Cerise and Rob hosting the tracks, but we could always ask Billy and the boys to waive the rights to royalties for competition entries....

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#68698 - Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:58:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Cerise Offline

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Ouchy.... from Mac Idol, it looks pretty bad.

Well, we'll talk to EMI about it - since one of the band instigated this comp in the first place, we might have a chance at keeping it alive. But I suspect it'll come down to MCPS, in which case we don't have a hope, and will have to discontinue the comp and remove all hosted cover/remix tracks (original should be OK, though). Fingers crossed...

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#68699 - Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:55:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
electro80's uk2 Offline
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Registered: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:00:00
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Loc: merseyside
i don't think there can be a problem with original stuff, apart from someone nicking it so everyone will have to make sure they copyright there own songs .

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#68700 - Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:02:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
Graeme Offline
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Registered: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:00:00
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There should be no mcps to pay - that body represents and collects for their members who have their recordings reproduced i.e. mechanically copied. This doesn't happen with cover versions. PRS collects for member who have thier recordings played - this includes web. Again can't see how this applies. The only legitimate claim could be from the publishers...
I suggest a nicely worded letter to them explaining the usage and pointing out that the EV website encourages interest and therefore sales in UVOX recordings and that the covers on the website are for no commercial use. I'm sure sense will prevail.

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#68701 - Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:46:00 Re: Ideas for the next competition...
tim b Offline
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I see what you mean about the mechanical licences, but from what the bloke on Mac Idol discovered, it's not the recording of the cover versions that's the problem, it's the actual hosting that you need a licence for.

Obviously, if you're sampling or reproducing a riff or melody without permission, that's where it gets tricky. Copyright law says that you can't do that without permission, even if it's just for fun. Surely someone could ask Billy, Warren & co to give permission as most of the stuff was written by them.

Did you know that a lot of the music you hear on tv and on adverts that you may think is a the original recording of well-known song is actually an almost exact cover version? It's cheaper for the advertisers and tv companies to do it that way because they don't have to deal with the publisher......and it's a lot cheaper as a result.

(I've licensed some of my own music recently and had to do a lot of checking around about such things)

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