Ultravox.org.uk Extreme Voice Official Ultravox Website

Current Ultravox promotional banner, click here for exclusive bundles


Topic Options
#67035 - Fri, 16 Sep 2005 04:30:00 Another synth question
Joe DaSilva Offline
Pass level: Press

Registered: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 75
Loc: Toronto, Canada
What was the primary bass synth used by Chris Cross? Was that the Mini Moog?

Any recommendations on "current" synth gear that best reproduces the Mini Moog bass sounds?

Thanks again

JD

Top
#67036 - Fri, 16 Sep 2005 04:34:00 Re: Another synth question
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4754
Loc: Here
Minimoog, yep!

The cheapest option is to get 1 of the VST Instrument software plugins that you can use on any PC or Mac with a suitable VST host - Cubase, Logic etc. Virtually perfect recreation of a minimoog can cost less than a hundred quid (UK money). Hardware though? I'll leave that to Don, he's more up on that side of things these days than me.

Don?

Top
#67037 - Fri, 16 Sep 2005 05:30:00 Re: Another synth question
PASSINGSTRANGER Offline
Pass level: Manager

Registered: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 409
Loc: St. Albans U.K
I have the Arturia Minimoog softsynth:
http://www.arturia.com/en/minimoog/minimoogv.php
and also the Gmedia MiniMonsta,
http://www.gmediamusic.com/
which is similar to the Arturia Minimoog,I also have many other softsynths Waldorf PPG 2V etc...
Can't really say that Softsynths have the "physical" presence of their hardware peers but do bear a very close resembalance non the less.
Kind regards. smile
P.S Free (demo) versions of the above can be downloaded from the above sites.

Top
#67038 - Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:13:00 Re: Another synth question
Chappie Offline
Congratulations on your 1,000th post!

Registered: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 1008
Loc: Nah, Luton Airport
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe DaSilva:
What was the primary bass synth used by Chris Cross? Was that the Mini Moog?

Any recommendations on "current" synth gear that best reproduces the Mini Moog bass sounds?

Thanks again

JD
You need look only as far as the Voyager for this!! Expensive? Certainly, but it can recreate that sound perfectly.

Top
#67039 - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:23:00 Re: Another synth question
Joe DaSilva Offline
Pass level: Press

Registered: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 75
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I've now tried the Arturia Minimoog softsynth (demo only). It does sound quite good, but the sound intermittently cuts out every 10 - 20 seconds. I have tried this on a few computers (to isolate whether the problem was with any specific sound card hardware), but the same problem seems to occur. Is this expected with the demo version of the software and the retail full version is ok?

JD

Top
#67040 - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 06:27:00 Re: Another synth question
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4754
Loc: Here
I would suggest having a look on the Arturia site - companies usually say what limitations are on the demo version - and its often things like sound cutouts, high pitched beeps or inability to save patches.

Top
#67041 - Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:06:00 Re: Another synth question
Joe DaSilva Offline
Pass level: Press

Registered: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 75
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Yes, Flip, you hit it right on the head. I did previously check their website but did not find anything. But, with your reminder that it would make sense for such a demo limitation to be outlined there, I checked again, and there it was.

JD

Top
#67042 - Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:35:00 Re: Another synth question
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4579
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joe,

The Arturia Mini is great, if you have a sampler i could send you a copy of the bass sound we use in our live set up, it was taken from an original Model D, using CC's Minimoog bass patch.

Loads of square wave with no sustain, very little decay, no res & add cut-off for the desired window shattering sound!

A Moog Voyager would be a very expensive option, but a great solution!!!

The closest synth i've heard to the above & the original Model D is the Waldorf Pulse, as it's analogue & has three meaty oscilators, these can be purchased on ebay for around the 150-200 mark & come in a very smart looking 2U 19" rack.
Hope this helps

Regards...
Sleepy zzzzz

Top
#67043 - Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:05:00 Re: Another synth question
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4579
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Here ye are Joe a wee bit on the pricey side, i wouldnt pay more than 200 for one, but this one's a minter!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Waldorf-Pulse-Anal...1QQcmdZViewItem

I paid 165.00..($359 CA!) for mine & it's cash well spent wink

Top
#67044 - Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:09:00 Re: Another synth question
LaptopRockers Offline
Pass level: Promoter

Registered: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 225
Loc: Milton Keynes, United Kingdom
Folks,

This really is a hobby-horse of mine but... anyone who thinks that a softsynth has the raw bollocks of a *real* analogue synth hasn't heard a *real* analogue synth.
wink

As I said in a previous thread, I've had the pleasure of testing a variety of softies against their real life counterparts and, sorry, but *there is no comparison*. Some may come close and some softies have their virtues like multi-timbral patches and greater polyphony but most just don't cut it.

Okay, I can hear the knives sharpening. wink

My experience is based on an interview I did with a studio owner in Yorkshire for Sound-on-Sound magazine in March 2004. Sound-on-Sound have now moved the article into the public domain so you can check the gear list and see what was available.

Read the original piece here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Oct04/articles/readerzone.htm

The gear list says it all. This really was an Alladin's cave of synths. In one corner, you'd have a Mac running a variety of softies and, in the other corner, you'd have a Moog modular, Minimoog, Moog Voyager etc not to mention the wall of PPG's and a stack of Fairlights. Don't believe me. Read the article. I have pictures. smile

Simply put, if you want a bass synth to really tear the place up, analogue circuits will do it. Your PC sound card will not. It's to do with the dynamic range available on your average PC soundcard.

As for finding a synth with the power of a Mini without the cost you could consider a Sequential Circuits Pro-One. They go for around 500. The tuning accuracy and stability are better than the Mini, the filter is full, fat and warm and the envelope generators are fast and sharp. I would never be parted from mine. smile

Sorry if I sound like an arrogant tw*t but I'm not a fan of softies at all.

Regards
David
http://www.infectionmusic.co.uk

Top
#67045 - Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:48:00 Re: Another synth question
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4579
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
No Dave, just truthful matey!
Has that bloke got an endless pit of cash or what?

What the feck has he got 3 Fairlights & 4 PPG Wave's for is beyond me...(other than being a real greedy b*****d!...lol)

Very Impressive sunna & i totally agree with you there aint nothing like a real analogue synth especially for the bottom end windae shatterin' bass!

I'm not a big fan of cyber synth's meself, but it's the cheaper option for peeps who are financially challenged!

I've owned a lot of classic collectable synths IE JP-8, OSCar, Wave 2.3, OB 4 Voice, Polymoog etc etc

I still disagree with you that the model-d mini & the voyagers are really that different...they're not....We used a Moog Voyager..(cheers PC! wink ) in Cheshunt for a lot of the bass duties along with a sample of my mates original model-d & you couldnt tell the difference & it blew Roy's power amp to boot the thing was that feckin fat!

I really get hacked off with thse folks who think they can make an absolute fortune on selling their old synths, recently i saw a Roland JP-8 go for well over 2 & half grand to guy in NZ....eh!

With the exception of guys like Richard Lawson(www.rlmusic.co.uk)granted his prices are high, but if you buy a synthesizer from him, you get what you pay for...the thing looks as if it's just came out of the box!!!

He is currently renovating Yamaha CS80's & churning them out to the tune of 5+ grand! & that's for one without a MIDI conversion done on it!!!. but check out the finished product, the amount of work that goes into renovating these beasties is immense!
The only grumble i have is i've no got the money to justify me buying one of his synth's!!! zzzzz

Top
#67046 - Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:52:00 Re: Another synth question
JesperDK Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 703
Loc: Denmark
I agree completely with Sleepwalker: I don`t think there`s any big difference in the sound
between the model D and the Voyager (I have just
bought one), and of course this is a topic that
has been discussed and will be disussed a lot in the future (the moogmusic forum etc). Of course the Voyager is a different synth, because it`s not a model D. My experince is that if you tweak it, then you are able to get the model D sound almost 100% accurate.
Like Sleepwalker Im also a fan of softsynths: I
got the Gmedia MiniMonsta which I think is doing
a really really GREAT job...it`s not a Moog, but
is sounds really good, and you are able to get some really good Moog-sounds out of it! I also
LOVE the Waldorf PPG Wave2v...my nr.1 softsynth
(togehter with the Absynth). The PPG2v is probably the best emulation af a SSM-filter that was ever done. It sounds GREAT!!!
But as Billy says in the Ubersonik interview: it`s 0`s and 1`s and it just doesn`t sound as warm etc as the "real" thing, and that is true!!!

Top
#67047 - Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:06:00 Re: Another synth question
LaptopRockers Offline
Pass level: Promoter

Registered: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 225
Loc: Milton Keynes, United Kingdom
Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepwalker:
No Dave, just truthful matey!
Has that bloke got an endless pit of cash or what?
Yes, actually. He has. smile

Quote:
What the feck has he got 3 Fairlights & 4 PPG Wave's for is beyond me...(other than being a real greedy b*****d!...lol)
They were bought as an investment. Most of them were originally damaged beyond repair. The majority were fixed and then sold on. Those that were not were kept for his studio.

Quote:
Very Impressive sunna & i totally agree with you there aint nothing like a real analogue synth especially for the bottom end windae shatterin' bass!
The only digital synth I've ever heard that could seriously break windows is a short-run machine called the Monowave. It's has the PPG wave set and features a Moog-like filter with analogue EG's. It cuts through a mix like the PPG but doesn't crash constantly. It's also monophonic but that's why samplers were invented, isn't it? smile

Quote:
I'm not a big fan of cyber synth's meself, but it's the cheaper option for peeps who are financially challenged!
One of the great arguements in favour of el cheapo soft synths is that, if you bury them in a mix then you can't tell the difference between them and the real thing. Err, sorry, but that's ballcocks. It just means your monitoring is crap. There is no substitute for 'bottom end' and 'richness' in a mix. smile

Quote:
I still disagree with you that the model-d mini & the voyagers are really that different...they're not....
The version I tried certainly was weaker than a Mini where bass sounds were concerned. This wasn't just my opinion. Most of those gathered around the machine walked away going "Huh? Wassup with it?"

However, this was an early version of the Voyager so maybe the later versions had more balls.

Cheers
David

Top
#67048 - Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:08:00 Re: Another synth question
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4754
Loc: Here
I think for those people without bags of cash (and the room to store them in), softies win every time. There's nothing like playing a hardware synth with pitch and mod controllers - totally agree with that. At the end of the day, do I want to pay 700 quid for an Ody or 70 quid for a software version which will give me "most" of the sound of the original? No contest really.

A mate of mine had a Prophet 5 - he swears the Pro 53 does everything and more the original did and sounds just as good. Good enough opinion for me to go and get one. smile

Top
#67049 - Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:10:00 Re: Another synth question
LaptopRockers Offline
Pass level: Promoter

Registered: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 225
Loc: Milton Keynes, United Kingdom
Hello all,

I feel it only fair to mention that there is one soft-synth that I do think is worth the moolah and that's the VAZ Modular system.

It doesn't pretend to emulate any one synth, has enough features to kick most softies into touch and is so well integrated with the PC that it could be considered a stand alone instrument in its own right.

I have to say this otherwise my friend (and VAZ Modular designer), Martin Fay, will rip my arm off and beat me to death with the soggy end.

Cheers
David

Top
#67050 - Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:40:00 Re: Another synth question
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4579
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
I think the Creamware Noah is meant to be a cross between a soft / hardware synth.

I spoke to Andy Thomas (PPG UK LTD) and he has done some work for it, does anyone know much about this machine?

Sounds like a step in the right direction?! bemused

Top
#67051 - Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:54:00 Re: Another synth question
LaptopRockers Offline
Pass level: Promoter

Registered: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 225
Loc: Milton Keynes, United Kingdom
I can't find much information on PPG UK. Wasn't even aware that they were in business!

David

Top
#67052 - Thu, 03 Nov 2005 23:13:00 Re: Another synth question
JesperDK Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 703
Loc: Denmark
Hi everybody!
Check this out! Its THE best emulation of a vintage synth I`ve EVER heard. It outclasses
Arturias 2600 BY FAR!!!
http://www.wayoutware.com/

All The Best
JesperDK

Top
#67053 - Thu, 03 Nov 2005 23:28:00 Re: Another synth question
JesperDK Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 703
Loc: Denmark
Yes and no Sleepwalker. Ive never tried it out
myself but Ive read about and heard some clips of the MiniMax - sounds very very GOOD! Perhaps THE very best emulation of the Minimoog ever done.
You can also play the Prodyssey, Pro-One etc.
The reviews Ive read where very very positive
- the Proyssey was very very good, a little bit
better than Gmedias Oddity.
Here`s a link for creamware:
http://www.creamware.com/

JesperDK

Top
#67054 - Fri, 04 Nov 2005 14:57:00 Re: Another synth question
Broadwave Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 147
Loc: Manchester
Hi Guys,

Made it here safely (flight VERY bumpy - all 12 hours of it!!)

I still have my two Creamware cards... Very very good, but I had to give them up when I switched to the Mac G5...they don't work in PCI-X sockets, plus the fact that Creamware never released OSX drivers. Modular III is stunning, MiniMax good too, never tried the ProOdyssey:(

I'm gonna put the cards up for sale when I get back in early December... 1 "Luna" and 1 PowerSampler, both have 3 DSP's and can be liked for 6 DSP processing.

Top
#67055 - Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:27:00 Re: Another synth question
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4579
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Quote:
Originally posted by JesperDK:
Yes and no Sleepwalker. Ive never tried it out
myself but Ive read about and heard some clips of the MiniMax - sounds very very GOOD! Perhaps THE very best emulation of the Minimoog ever done.
You can also play the Prodyssey, Pro-One etc.
The reviews Ive read where very very positive
- the Proyssey was very very good, a little bit
better than Gmedias Oddity.
Here`s a link for creamware:
http://www.creamware.com/

JesperDK
Jesper Thanks Matey :p

Dave Hughes Andy Thomas used to be that chap who ran all things PPG this side of Germany until auld Wolfgang Palm lost the plot!!! biglaugh

Top
#67056 - Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:41:00 Re: Another synth question
Joe DaSilva Offline
Pass level: Press

Registered: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 75
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Does anyone, who has used the Minimoog V, have any saved patches that are close to Chris Cross' typical bass sounds?

JD

Top
#67057 - Wed, 09 Nov 2005 14:10:00 Re: Another synth question
Broadwave Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 147
Loc: Manchester
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe DaSilva:
Does anyone, who has used the Minimoog V, have any saved patches that are close to Chris Cross' typical bass sounds?

JD
Hi Joe, Got quite a few, but I'm on holiday at the moment, can post them to you when I get back early December (you can hear a few Minimoog V patches on my comp cover entries, Rivits, Quietmen and Slowmotion) but I've just played them back on a decent system...tend to be on the bass heavy side frown

Top