Ultravox.org.uk Extreme Voice Official Ultravox Website

Pre-order Ultravox's 'Extended' remastered remixes album here now, exclusive bundles available!


Topic Options
#66765 - Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:16:00 Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
This thread is solely for discussion and contributions on what instruments and sound gear was used on the Rage In Eden album. Please post away!

Cheers!

Top
#66766 - Tue, 12 Jul 2005 04:48:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Nils Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 1535
Loc: Bremen, Germany
Chris - Minimoog (basslines), Yamaha CS40m

Midge - Yamaha CS40m, Yamaha SS30 ("The Voice"), Yamaha CS50, Yamaha SG 2000 electric guitar, Fender Stratocaster

Billy - ARP Odyssey (solos), Yamaha CP80 piano, Yamaha SS30, Yamaha CS80 ("I remember"), Oberheim OB-X ("The Thin Wall" - according to TOTP (see below))

Warren - acoustic drums, Roland TR77, Roland CR78

Top
#66767 - Thu, 14 Jul 2005 04:41:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Nils Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 1535
Loc: Bremen, Germany
Hey Micke!
Here are two screenshots:




You're right, it is the Oberheim OB-X!

Here a pic from www.vintagesynth.com:


I'll edit my equipment posts!

Top
#66768 - Thu, 14 Jul 2005 06:23:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Micke Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 28
Loc: Sweden
Thanks a bunch for the pics Nils!

Yep, that's the OB-X alright. I simply love the old-fashioned look and sound of this old poly-synth. I think it sounds more organic and also warmer than the later OB-Xa, which was an all-Curtis design.

I also spotted 2 Minimoogs, the Yamaha CS80 and Billy's "no.1" synth, the Arp Odyssey (note that he's using the black & orange Odyssey III rather than the older black/gold face Odyssey II by the time of this TOTP performance.

Regards,
Micke

Top
#66769 - Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:06:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
You're right - the OBX is a lovely old thing. Just what a synth SHOULD look like. laugh

I would point out that on TOTP bands often just "hired in" instruments for the performance (as it was mimed, it didn't really matter what was hired in). The Orange and black Ody is unlikely to have been Billy's (his was a white face as we all know).

I'm sure I've seen Billy miming one of his solos on a DX7 before now... eek

Top
#66770 - Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:28:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
JesperDK Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 703
Loc: Denmark
Well...was it really a whiteface Odyssey 1 Billy
used??? (becaue Im not sure about that!).
Wasn`t it the Odyssey 2 (black/gold) - Im pretty
sure he used the Odyssey 2 later, in 1982, painted in the famous grey colour smile
It had/has a "better" filter I seem to recall

Everything about the Aro Odyssey:
www.arpodyssey.com

Jesper from DK

Top
#66771 - Thu, 14 Jul 2005 07:31:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
JesperDK Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 703
Loc: Denmark
Anyone who have heard about the Aro...
....anyone????.....No???!!!

wink

Top
#66772 - Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:20:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Quote:
Originally posted by JesperDK:
Well...was it really a whiteface Odyssey 1 Billy
used??? (becaue Im not sure about that!).
Wasn`t it the Odyssey 2 (black/gold) - Im pretty
sure he used the Odyssey 2 later, in 1982, painted in the famous grey colour smile
Ok, I blame the heat as well - I'm sure you're right! laugh

Top
#66773 - Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:00:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4579
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Billy in fact used all three models of the ARP Odyssey. If you check the footage from the Whistle Test show performance of 'Hiroshima' he's using the Mklll Ody.

I'd very much like to know which version of the Odyssey Billy prefered & was it the White face Ody with the Moog filter fitted? smile

Chris used two Minimoogs..(pictured above side by side) on the 1981 Rage tour.

Top
#66774 - Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:38:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Micke Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 28
Loc: Sweden
The white-face Odyssey didn't have the Moog "lawsuit" filter. It came with an Oberheim SEM-style 2-pole filter. A very small number of black/gold faces had this filter too.

Only the black/gold face model(s) 2810/2811/2812
came with the 4035 filter, this was a 24 DB/octave filter very similar to the (in)famous 4012 "Moog" filter installed in ALL Arp 2600's built between 1971 to late 1976 when Arp finally replaced it with their new 4072 filter. At about the same time (late 1976), the 4035 found in the Odyssey was replaced by the new 4075 filter which was similar to the 4072.

Micke smile

Top
#66775 - Fri, 15 Jul 2005 01:00:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepwalker:
Billy in fact used all three models of the ARP Odyssey. If you check the footage from the Whistle Test show performance of 'Hiroshima' he's using the Mklll Ody.
Funny that, I was convinced Billy only ever owned one - and it was the one JF had bought him in the early ultravox days. confused

I suppose even for live tv performances it might have been quicker and cheaper to hire in gear but seems less likely than if they were miming.

Hmmm...perhaps 1 of us should ask "Il Maestro" himself for the definitive answer...

Top
#66776 - Fri, 15 Jul 2005 04:27:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Nils Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 1535
Loc: Bremen, Germany
Micke, I'm deeply impressed!! I bet You have some of those dinosaurs at home, right?

Top
#66777 - Fri, 15 Jul 2005 06:28:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Micke Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 28
Loc: Sweden
Quote:
Originally posted by Nils:
Micke, I'm deeply impressed!! I bet You have some of those dinosaurs at home, right?
I'm sorry to disappoint you Nils but no, I actually don't own one single synth at the moment. Currently, the only musical instrument I own is an early 60's Bergman Klavitron spinet organ that utilizes tube/neon technology.

I did however own a few analogue 'classics' in the past like a Korg Polysix, Korg MS-20, Yamaha SK-20 as well as an Oberheim OB-Xa and DMX, the latter two of which I bought brand new back in 1982.
Those were the days.

Micke smile

Top
#66778 - Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:03:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Micke Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 28
Loc: Sweden
Quote:
Originally posted by Flip Martian:

Hmmm...perhaps 1 of us should ask "Il Maestro" himself for the definitive answer...
Flip, I've already sent Billy a couple of emails asking about his past setup but no reply as of yet. He may have more important things to do ;-)

Micke

Top
#66779 - Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:36:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Si_W Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4056
Loc: UK
Yep, like watch the Live Aid dvds... wink

Top
#66780 - Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:24:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Quote:
Originally posted by Micke:
Flip, I've already sent Billy a couple of emails asking about his past setup but no reply as of yet. He may have more important things to do ;-)
Thanks Micke! laugh You never know..."one small day" he may answer. wink

Top
#66781 - Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:32:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4579
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Micke

You certainly know your stuff...keep it comin' matey!

I prefer the Oberheim OB-Xa to the OB-X as it's the main synth on Simple Minds New Gold Dream (81,82,83,84) for warm strings it's fantastic!

Top
#66782 - Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:14:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Micke Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 28
Loc: Sweden
Quote:
Originally posted by Sleepwalker:
Micke

You certainly know your stuff...keep it comin' matey!

I prefer the Oberheim OB-Xa to the OB-X as it's the main synth on Simple Minds New Gold Dream (81,82,83,84) for warm strings it's fantastic!
Thanks,

Well I do know a thing or two about vintage synths (and combo-organs) but much more so on a theoretical level than practical :-)

Yep, the OB-Xa is a great sounding synth as well (I owned one for some years back in the early eighties so I know what I'm talking about). As far as sheer power and punch, there ain't too many synths that can touch it. I still think the older OB-X (as well as the still earlier X-voice's) have a more organic/warm sound to them though. I'm certain this is due to the fact that these oldies utilized mostly discrete circuits for the sound generation.

Yeah, Mick MacNeill was a big user of the OB-Xa and he sure did use it on most of the NGD tracks I have (video)taped from the 1983 NGD tour. Other favorites of his were the Roland Jupiter-4 (another great sounding synth IMO but still very underrated), Jupiter-8 as well as the small Korg 770 mono-synth all of which he used on the NGD album and tour.

Speaking of SM, I've seen some very early live footage of 'em (circa late '78/'79)where Mick is using a Farfisa VIP 400/500 combo-organ along with the ubiquitous Korg 770 and what I believe is a Arp/Solina string ensemble. I think he bought the Jup-4 sometime during '79. I reckon this is the stuff we can hear on SM's earliest albums.

sorry for rambling on like this
Micke

Top
#66783 - Mon, 18 Jul 2005 09:32:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Graeme Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 165
Loc: Yorkshire
I'm convinced billy's arp was the mk 2. at least it was on every date I saw them play from 1980.

the mk 1 (whiteface) is arguably a better synth due to the moog filters (check herbie hancock's stuff esp "headhunters" - one of my fave records of all time) audio

the mk 3 is a piece of crap and very unreliable and flimsy

Top
#66784 - Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:20:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Micke Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 28
Loc: Sweden
Quote:
Originally posted by Graeme:
I'm convinced billy's arp was the mk 2. at least it was on every date I saw them play from 1980.

the mk 1 (whiteface) is arguably a better synth due to the moog filters (check herbie hancock's stuff esp "headhunters" - one of my fave records of all time) audio
In most (but not all) of the live pics I've seen he is indeed using a black & gold face Odyssey II.

Well, if you think the "white-face" Odyssey is the best sounding one, then I'm sure you prefer the Oberheim SEM-style 2-pole filter over the Moog type because that's the filter found in the white-faces. The white-faces did NOT have the Moog-style filter installed.

IMO, a properly set up Odyssey III doesn't sound crap at all. Its filter, the 4-pole 4075, did indeed have a design fault but that's a comparatively easy fix.

Micke

Top
#66785 - Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:27:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
I was always pretty sure the first Odys came out with the "moog" filter - it was only when Moog were going to sue that they changed it. Right? And the first generation Odys were white...

May be wrong of course; I don't keep up with this stuff as much as I used to so maybe my memory is playing tricks! smile

Top
#66786 - Tue, 19 Jul 2005 01:53:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Micke Offline
Pass level: VIP

Registered: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 28
Loc: Sweden
I'm 100% certain of the fact that the "White-face" (model 2800) didn't have the Moog filter. As I said, it came fitted with the 4023, a 2-pole (12db/octave) filter which was similar to the filter found in the early Oberheim SEM/X-voice synths.

The same filter (the 4023 that is) was also installed into a small number of black/gold face Odyssey I's until Arp replaced it with the 4035 filter sometime in 1975. The 4035 was a slightly modified 4-pole (24db/oct) Moog ladder design similar (but not identical) to the infamous 4012 filter which in turn was installed into all 2600's built up to the end of 1976.

To conclude, the only Odyssey models that originally came with the so-called "Moog" filter were the middle-period (1975 to late 1976) black/gold models 2810/2811 and 2812. Odysseys built after these; the black/gold face models 2813-2815 as well as the black & orange models 2820-2823 all used the 4075 (24 DB/octave) filter. This new Arp filter (along with the similar 4072 used in the Arp 2600 built from late '76 onwards) had been introduced in the mid-to-late '76 and was as far as I know the result of Moog's lawsuit.

Top
#66787 - Tue, 19 Jul 2005 04:46:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Flip Martian Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Micke, thanks. You are now our Ody-God. laugh

Top
#66788 - Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:01:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Sleepwalker Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 4579
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
the mk 3 is a piece of crap and very unreliable and flimsy eek

Graeme, I beg to differ i own a Mk 3 & it certainly has the Billy sound i agree with you that it's a lot less robust than the White face & the Mk2, but it's still essentially the same synthesizer.

Having seen Numan using it live on the track 'Please Push No more' in the live video 'Micro Music'...it's got that Billy glide in the portamento section alright. lmao )

Bearing in mind here guys that, Billy used his Ody(s) with FX pedals & without them it sounds pretty shite to say the least!....only my opinion ye ken!

Top
#66789 - Wed, 20 Jul 2005 03:28:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
JesperDK Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 703
Loc: Denmark
Hey Sleepwalker!

That sounds pretty COOL - the Billy Currie
sound chart...hey hey! smile
What do I have to do???
Here is my email (if you need it):
FanStar@stofanet.dk
If you need my adress, then mail me please!!!

THANKS A LOT and All The Best!!!
JesperDK

Top
#66790 - Wed, 20 Jul 2005 03:30:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
JesperDK Offline
Pass level: Access All Areas

Registered: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 703
Loc: Denmark
PS: Perhaps I can "pay" you back with some
great sounds for the impOSCar...or was it the
Oddity you bought....or is it something Ive
dreamt....

Top
#66791 - Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:27:00 Re: Rage In Eden - Instruments/Equipment Used
Graeme Offline
Pass level: Green Room

Registered: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 165
Loc: Yorkshire
Quote:
IMO, a properly set up Odyssey III doesn't sound crap at all. Its filter, the 4-pole 4075, did indeed have a design fault but that's a comparatively easy fix.
you're right i'm sure. i was really referring to build quality which i;m sure you'll agree was poor.

intersting about the filters on the whiteface. I stand corrected. where you get the detail?

respect <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

Quote:
Graeme, I beg to differ i own a Mk 3 & it certainly has the Billy sound i agree with you that it's a lot less robust than the White face & the Mk2, but it's still essentially the same synthesizer.
Don as ever the the voice of reason
cheers man!

Top