i use firefox as a browser.
maybe itunes doesn't like that type of browser?

i'm lost here now...

Use the standalone program, iTunes 6 (download it from itunes.com - big red "Free Download" button).

thanks, but i've already done this before i've started the search!

anyway, now i can find the items by john and also the nation 12 album, but the damned thing won't accept my account data under which i've just registered to buy something!

seems to be a ****ing complicated procedure...

The album is very very good - if only it had arrived at the time! I like the Golden Section feel to some of the vocals.

The Nation 12 album just showed up on eMusic.com, a few days after Cathedral Oceans III and Crash and Burn. I'm glad to have the actual CDs anyway, but others may want to consider eMusic as a possible source.

The problem for some people may be that it's a subscription service, not like iTunes; you pay a fixed amount per month and get a certain number of track downloads. Another factor: no major labels, lots of obscure stuff, and sometimes rights restrictions that prevent users in the UK from getting certain items. But they have a couple Midge albums, a few Billy albums, one Billyvox album, a few Eno albums, a couple Harold Budd albums... and you get high quality (usually VBR around 192 or more) mp3s with no digital rights management. Much better quality than iTunes.

yes indeed!

thanks for the hint, steve!

I bought the Nation 12 CD from Amazon over the holiday there.

Interesting stuff, even if that fairly "housey" style sounds rather dated now.
I particularly enjoyed hearing "Leaving" (which turned into "Through My Sleeping")... John's melody and chord progression on there basically survived to the new version intact, even the folky-vocoder-harmonies!
A bit strange though that some of these titles have one set of writing credits for the Nation 12 CD, then the re-surface with different credits (including Louis Gordon) on subsequent albums...

My disc does not appear to have Concrete, Bulletproof, Invisible on it though!?

Assuming you're copy is still part of the original run and that corrections haven't been made to the CD in subsequent pressings... tracks 11 & 12 have been transposed on the sleeve therefore track 11 is Concrete Bulletproof Invisible, track 12 is Remember.

Steve - thanks for the recommendation for emusic - just been checking out some of the artists and I think its worth at least signing up for the trial!

yes but bits of the vocal chorus chord progression of "She Was" got re-used later in "An Ocean We Can Breathe"

And, aye, I see now, it's my tracks 11 & 12 that had their title's switched.

Can't say I care much for that awful "digital electric distorted guitar" sample grot thing which fuels much of those two tracks, however!

It's a funny thing that whole era of music -
there were some excellent tracks around, but a lot of it was just nasty low-budget digital sample plastic sounding twaddle, in my humble opinion!
By far the best things about these Nation 12 tracks to my ear are their nice Foxxy vocals and melodies - the production values of the drums and samples don't excite me much, to be honest.

Agreed, but in defence of the Nation 12 project, it's very much "of its time".

Back in the late 80s sampling had really only just filtered down to the masses so it was considered pretty amazing that you could sample a "Funky Drummer" type beat and just loop it through the whole song. These days of course it sounds primitive and dated.

As a Foxx fan I think it's fair to say that this will be the CD I play the least of all his releases. Nice to have finally satisfied my curiousity though.

Yeah - I think what had happened with mainstream white pop music, and electronic stuff, was that as the 80s went on, they were always using more and more digital sampling drum machines, with MIDI sequencer control, and basically most artists just weren't very good at programming rhythms.

At least the sounds on analogue drum machines had a good electronic sound with a bit of subtle variation from beat to beat,
but the digital drum machines were just sterile sounding (every drum hit the same) and those overly quantized MIDI sequencing grids just resulted in loads of crap rhythms that no-one wanted to tap their feet to.

As Herbot says, being able to sample 'funky drummer' breaks off old vinyl appeared to suddenly allow access to fantastic groovy rhythms:
but, it retrospect, it was actually pants!
(a) the audio quality was crap, since it was dodgy 80s low bit rate D>A convertors sampling auld vinyl
(b) (more importantly) those funky breaks were played well by real musicians origianlly, who knew how to play a good rhythm and inject feel and life and groove into it, and add breaks for effect at pertinent points of the song. Just *only* taking one funky break and looping it continuously is actual monotonous and rhythmically a bit stupid. It usually doesn't make you want to tap your feet as much as the stuff the drummer played originally!

The other thing I generally don't like about those late 80s/early 90s electro records is the synth sounds: although the best acid house stuff did use real analogue bleeps, most stuff, including Nation 12, seems to have relied on a few crap samples, usually off some really naff cheap digital synth like a Yamaha DX100. And they would generally play rather cheesy rhythms and hooks with them.

In fact, to be honest, by far and away the best bit for me about those Nation 12 demos is John's melodies and chord progressions: they stand the test of time, and he did re-use a good few of them for better songs later. He had the real songwriting talent, the rest of them were probably just studio monkeys who knew a few modern tricks, but couldn't create much of lasting value with them.

Louis Gordon appears to have been a much better collaborator for John.

Good said, feline- I agree with you in this!
Like you I like more the"John Foxx side" from Nation 12. I'm not so keen of the house sound but it is interesting to listen to . As I said before - This CD is surely not for everyones taste but nice to have for all the collectors. I like to hear the early versions of the later stuff from Shifting city...

You're right - John and Louis are great! I hope we can enjoy a new CD ( with gigs?) this year???!!!

For my opinion, tracks like SHE WAS or SHADOW DANCING could be included in the set list of the next gig from John & Louis. It sounded more like what John & Louis make today...

Call me a slow learner, but I've got this now.
Cash is great, isn't it?

All the stuff about limited editions and pre-sales seems to be marketing twaddle.
There were THREE copies in my local HMV this afternoon. Filed under John Foxx too, so someone's on the case

Picked up a copy of Soft Cell's Bedsit Tapes on CD too.
Hurrah - tis going to be an interesting weekend!

Martin, your local HMV has a John Foxx section? Bloody hell, talk about lucky! If it isn't a greatest hits collection or anything to do with Pop Idol/X Factor, our local HMV doesn't stock it. <img border="0" alt="[Shake head]" title="" src="graemlins/shakehead.gif" /> Thank God for the internet.

My local HMV has a John Foxx section too. Usually only a couple of albums ever there but still at least I should be thankful.

Martin I've got Soft Cell's Bedsit Tapes also. Very basic but even in the early days you can hear Marc's flamboyance and Dave's technical abilities taking shape. Andy

To throw my opinion into the melting pot (and having just read through this whole thread), I am leaping around with excitement at how much better this album is than the two singles - and some of the comments above) would have me believe!
I am going to say its Brilliant - as psychadelic as acid. I agree with everyone that its John's melodies and especially his "Revolver" harmonies that work, but that's not to detract from the drum and bass lines and break beat trickery going on.s
For me, the stand out tracks on first few listen are She Was, Shadow Dancing (which I think would have fitted in on TPOE rather better than some of the songs that actually did) and the big bold and brassy 'pop' song Your Kisses Burn. This is especially good because though the lyric is actually quite naive and a little corny in places (sorry John!) he is obviously having such happy time recording something so extravagant.
(into the) Wonderful stuff. Hurrah!

Now here's a funny thing.
Anyone here familiar with Marc Almond's "Open All Night" album? I'm a Big Fan, and somehow Shadow Dancing especially wouldn't be entirely out of place on there…It has that late night, torchlike feel about it.
Almond also actually wrote a song called "Your Kisses Burn" for Nico and while there's no similarity between the two, the style of the Foxx song is more than a little Marcesque in its flambouyance and sensuality.
Strange what bits you pick up on isn't it?

I'll get my coat. Mx

Hi Birdsong
I agree with your comments 100%. I have listened to the Nation 12 CD quite a few times now and personally I think it is very good. OK it has a "dated" sound but this doesn't spoil it.
One of my favourite tracks is Your Kisses Burn and I'm sure it would have made a better single than Electofear . Your kisses burn would have been great to dance to in the disco's, nightclubs etc. <img border="0" alt="[Suave]" title="" src="graemlins/suave.gif" />
Regards
Peter

Martin, I'm a big fan of the "Open All Night" album (and of Marc's work). It contains some of the 'very last pearls' in modern pop music. Marc Almond is a genius in songwriting, and is still criminally ignored.

I have to say that while I agree with many of the very interesting "historical-technical" comments posted above, I don't think the Nation 12 project is an important part in Foxx career. The collaboration with Louis Gordon is, as Feline 1 said.

I was given the album by a very good friend over the weekend. Quite different to some of John's stuff I thought - 'Leaving' and 'Into The Wonderful' are the stand out tracks for me.

There is - or at least was on Thursday 20th April - a copy of this in Southampton HMV for £9.99. Filed under Nation 12, in the "Dance" section

Weird. It's not been hard to get hold of at all.

They have a massive sale on now too - CO1/2 double pack for £3.99. Got Telekon on CD at last too for the same price - a Robin Guthrie album and three Foetus discs.
It's all out there somewhere, even in good old fashioned shops...

When you say you got the nation 12 in the 'dance' section, is it the full album with bonus tracks. If so im very confused.

If you can get 'tiny colour movies' before even the pre release, let us know

It's the standard release of the 'Electrofear' album.
As far as I know there is only one???
16 tracks, inc. three 'bonus' remixes.

I'm unlikely to get the new album before anyone else as I tend to buy stuff from retail outlets, not online sources.
Call me old-fashioned…

Since yesterday i did a bit of research, if anything to stop my confusion.
Nation 12 WAS released but it appears record company stopped it shortly after in favour of nov 14th re release date.
Its also a 90% chance your copy will be the same as the 'limited edition'.
No worry about the old fashion tag, it seems to be working better than industry contacts and mp3 downloads.

As for TCM, that really will be about may 8th or further

I think its 100% chance.

There was no 'limited edition' of this album, only limited availablility. It's not the same thing.

Sorry did not make it clear.

It will be a limited edition of 5000 copys from the re release date, but not limited in the sense that track listing will stay the same.

However, november is a long time off and from an insiders point of view 100% is rare.
If the release stays as planned your right, it will be the same.

Newvox - can I ask if your source on this release / the November date is just the eBay auction that's currently on? Because, looking at the auction in question, I think the seller has just relisted the original auction with its original description verbatim - forgetting that the release date on the auction last year pointed to Nov 14th 2005...

It would be a bit strange to have the 'full' release (if there is to be one) a whole year after copies were put up for auction on eBay, plus it would be very costly to change masters and artwork etc, so I'm certain that if it does get a full 'shop' release it'll be the same as the one we got in November. I'm convinced that this is just an error on the seller's part.

Hi Cerise, My source of info is not directly with this album. So i suspect this ebay seller could of confused the year of release.
I was just stating in genaral that in other cases albums do come out and then get re released. I agree if the masters have already been done, theres no reason to change it. You do sometimes find with larger labels they sometimes put the money up to re arrange an album in the hope it will sell bettter.

Can i take this oppertunity to thank you for the e.v. books and videos you sent me 'too many years ago' Ive kept them all.

Regards, ken

Yeah, sounds like the seller's miseducated error to me.

The Nation 12 CD that came out last November is the definitive and only official CD release to date, containing almost all if not all of the material recorded.

It was a limited run which as far as I know is now being/has just been re-pressed - which is probably what this is.

My pleasure, Ken.

I've just been re-reading them actually, whilst preparing PDFs to upload to this site. It's funny, I'd kinda forgotten some of the things we did, and I know Rob said the same thing last week when he was re-reading EV20. It's kinda nice having some of your life in print, if you have a crap memory like me!!