#5676 - Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:48:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Press
Registered: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 59
Loc: here and now
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i use firefox as a browser. maybe itunes doesn't like that type of browser? i'm lost here now... 
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#5677 - Fri, 09 Dec 2005 01:39:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Press
Registered: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 100
Loc: Chicago
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Originally posted by Lonesome Rider: i use firefox as a browser. maybe itunes doesn't like that type of browser?
i'm lost here now... Use the standalone program, iTunes 6 (download it from itunes.com - big red "Free Download" button).
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#5679 - Tue, 20 Dec 2005 06:44:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Green Room
Registered: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:00:00
Posts: 188
Loc: Exeter, UK
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The album is very very good - if only it had arrived at the time! I like the Golden Section feel to some of the vocals.
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#5680 - Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:31:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Promoter
Registered: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:00:00
Posts: 230
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
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The Nation 12 album just showed up on eMusic.com, a few days after Cathedral Oceans III and Crash and Burn. I'm glad to have the actual CDs anyway, but others may want to consider eMusic as a possible source.
The problem for some people may be that it's a subscription service, not like iTunes; you pay a fixed amount per month and get a certain number of track downloads. Another factor: no major labels, lots of obscure stuff, and sometimes rights restrictions that prevent users in the UK from getting certain items. But they have a couple Midge albums, a few Billy albums, one Billyvox album, a few Eno albums, a couple Harold Budd albums... and you get high quality (usually VBR around 192 or more) mp3s with no digital rights management. Much better quality than iTunes.
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#5681 - Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:23:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Press
Registered: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 20:00:00
Posts: 59
Loc: here and now
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Originally posted by Steve Roby: ... consider eMusic as a possible source. ... Much better quality than iTunes. yes indeed! thanks for the hint, steve! 
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#5682 - Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:14:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Manager
Registered: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 389
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I bought the Nation 12 CD from Amazon over the holiday there.
Interesting stuff, even if that fairly "housey" style sounds rather dated now. I particularly enjoyed hearing "Leaving" (which turned into "Through My Sleeping")... John's melody and chord progression on there basically survived to the new version intact, even the folky-vocoder-harmonies! A bit strange though that some of these titles have one set of writing credits for the Nation 12 CD, then the re-surface with different credits (including Louis Gordon) on subsequent albums...
My disc does not appear to have Concrete, Bulletproof, Invisible on it though!?
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#5685 - Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:35:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Manager
Registered: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 389
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yes but bits of the vocal chorus chord progression of "She Was" got re-used later in "An Ocean We Can Breathe"
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#5686 - Thu, 05 Jan 2006 01:17:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Manager
Registered: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 389
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And, aye, I see now, it's my tracks 11 & 12 that had their title's switched.
Can't say I care much for that awful "digital electric distorted guitar" sample grot thing which fuels much of those two tracks, however!
It's a funny thing that whole era of music - there were some excellent tracks around, but a lot of it was just nasty low-budget digital sample plastic sounding twaddle, in my humble opinion! By far the best things about these Nation 12 tracks to my ear are their nice Foxxy vocals and melodies - the production values of the drums and samples don't excite me much, to be honest.
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#5687 - Sat, 07 Jan 2006 00:38:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Green Room
Registered: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 107
Loc: Barnsley
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Agreed, but in defence of the Nation 12 project, it's very much "of its time".
Back in the late 80s sampling had really only just filtered down to the masses so it was considered pretty amazing that you could sample a "Funky Drummer" type beat and just loop it through the whole song. These days of course it sounds primitive and dated.
As a Foxx fan I think it's fair to say that this will be the CD I play the least of all his releases. Nice to have finally satisfied my curiousity though.
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#5688 - Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:47:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Manager
Registered: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:00:00
Posts: 389
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Yeah - I think what had happened with mainstream white pop music, and electronic stuff, was that as the 80s went on, they were always using more and more digital sampling drum machines, with MIDI sequencer control, and basically most artists just weren't very good at programming rhythms.
At least the sounds on analogue drum machines had a good electronic sound with a bit of subtle variation from beat to beat, but the digital drum machines were just sterile sounding (every drum hit the same) and those overly quantized MIDI sequencing grids just resulted in loads of crap rhythms that no-one wanted to tap their feet to.
As Herbot says, being able to sample 'funky drummer' breaks off old vinyl appeared to suddenly allow access to fantastic groovy rhythms: but, it retrospect, it was actually pants! (a) the audio quality was crap, since it was dodgy 80s low bit rate D>A convertors sampling auld vinyl (b) (more importantly) those funky breaks were played well by real musicians origianlly, who knew how to play a good rhythm and inject feel and life and groove into it, and add breaks for effect at pertinent points of the song. Just *only* taking one funky break and looping it continuously is actual monotonous and rhythmically a bit stupid. It usually doesn't make you want to tap your feet as much as the stuff the drummer played originally!
The other thing I generally don't like about those late 80s/early 90s electro records is the synth sounds: although the best acid house stuff did use real analogue bleeps, most stuff, including Nation 12, seems to have relied on a few crap samples, usually off some really naff cheap digital synth like a Yamaha DX100. And they would generally play rather cheesy rhythms and hooks with them.
In fact, to be honest, by far and away the best bit for me about those Nation 12 demos is John's melodies and chord progressions: they stand the test of time, and he did re-use a good few of them for better songs later. He had the real songwriting talent, the rest of them were probably just studio monkeys who knew a few modern tricks, but couldn't create much of lasting value with them.
Louis Gordon appears to have been a much better collaborator for John.
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#5689 - Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:39:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Access All Areas
Registered: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 20:00:00
Posts: 783
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
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Originally posted by feline1: Louis Gordon appears to have been a much better collaborator for John. Good said, feline- I agree with you in this! Like you I like more the"John Foxx side" from Nation 12. I'm not so keen of the house sound but it is interesting to listen to . As I said before - This CD is surely not for everyones taste but nice to have for all the collectors. I like to hear the early versions of the later stuff from Shifting city... You're right - John and Louis are great! I hope we can enjoy a new CD ( with gigs?) this year???!!! 
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#5697 - Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:57:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I was given the album by a very good friend over the weekend. Quite different to some of John's stuff I thought - 'Leaving' and 'Into The Wonderful' are the stand out tracks for me. 
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#5698 - Mon, 24 Apr 2006 04:15:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Access All Areas
Registered: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 640
Loc: southampton
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There is - or at least was on Thursday 20th April - a copy of this in Southampton HMV for £9.99. Filed under Nation 12, in the "Dance" section Weird. It's not been hard to get hold of at all. They have a massive sale on now too - CO1/2 double pack for £3.99. Got Telekon on CD at last too for the same price - a Robin Guthrie album and three Foetus discs. It's all out there somewhere, even in good old fashioned shops... 
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#5700 - Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:28:00
Re: Nation 12's long-lost album...
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Pass level: Access All Areas
Registered: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 19:00:00
Posts: 640
Loc: southampton
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Originally posted by newvox: When you say you got the nation 12 in the 'dance' section, is it the full album with bonus tracks. If so im very confused.
If you can get 'tiny colour movies' before even the pre release, let us know It's the standard release of the 'Electrofear' album. As far as I know there is only one??? 16 tracks, inc. three 'bonus' remixes. I'm unlikely to get the new album before anyone else as I tend to buy stuff from retail outlets, not online sources. Call me old-fashioned…
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