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#204 - Sat, 13 Nov 2004 20:27:00 Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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If this has been posted elsewhere, my apologies in advance....but: yes! Crash and Burn now seems to be available via Apple's UK iTunes music store, for the princely sum of 7.99.

Just FYI

On a wider note, I know that I've seen post suggesting that neither John nor Midge consider iTunes (and their ilk) a priority for the distribution of their music, but doesn't greater exposure benefit both fan and artist? I've seen no mention of Billy's take on this subject.

That having been said I speak from a standpoint of complete ignorance with regard to the legal concerns and financial implications for artists and getting their output into such online music stores.

My own personal note on this is that iTunes, in particular, has been almost single handedly responsible for my renewed interest in buying music (the original petering out in the early '90s). My iPod is now stuffed with things that, previously I would never have considered buying as a whole ablum, or would have been deflected from trying because of the inability ro preview tracks (... obviously this doesn't apply to John Foxx or Ultravox, as I was already armed with the CDs!...).

This is the first album I've seen of John's that was available through iTunes, and Midge has some representation of older stuff with Answers, the No Regrets compilation and, surprisingly the Went To Coney Island soundtrack. Billy has nothing.

All Ultravox albums, both from John's and Midge's eras (with the exception of U-VOX) are available.

As I said, without knowing the business ins-and-outs, to not have representaion on such highly popular sites seems like a possibly missed opportunity.

As an original fan and advocate of everyone's music, I'd be interested to hear any comment, or even official word back, particularly from the guys if they are listening.

Tidy, like!

viking

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#205 - Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:30:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cerise Offline

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I had a conversation with Midge about it a while ago; he really wasn't interested, saying that people are used to downloading free music, despite my impassioned argument to the contrary - that iTunes is changing this. So I prepared a heap of articles and info that proves how well iTunes is doing and, as you say, reviving interest in BUYING music online. Berenice WAS interested and DOES think it's a good idea - but at the end of the day, it would be her that has to do it, and she has other priorities. Midge's other concern was that iTunes is too cheap - but I have seen albums on there for much more than the standard 7.99, some as much as 14.99 - so it is obviously possible to do full-price releases. Besides, there are NO production and fulfilment costs involved, beyond (I assume) iTunes' cut - so surely the profit involved is greater anyhow?

Rob sent the same articles to John; we presume Crash and Burn is the outcome, but John hasn't mentioned it back to Rob.

It would be a great idea for Billy, I feel...

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#206 - Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:02:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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You get my vote for trying on that Cerise, and I hope you can keep chipping away! : )

I've just finished Midge's autobiography and, given the financial circumstances it hints at, I would imagine even 20% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

In the last few months, legal downloading seems to have started to climb from a high-profile fad to become the one of the standard of music distribution. Music and copyright organisations seem to be taking a stronger stance toward bringing illegal downloading to a swifter end. To that end, and with the increasing use of digital music players (..it's amazing the number of just iPod users I meet on my brief, 15 min train journey to work each day...) to try and ignore the market is a King Canute job.

I hope that doesn't sound harsh but, like yourself, I only wish Midge's solo work was more widely available, via any profitable means.

It seems reasonable to assume that, as Crash & Burn is John's most recent album of work, which he controls the distribution of, that he is either testing the iTunes waters, or has already taken the decision to 'drip' release his catalogue. Ultimately only he knows the answer to that.

I agree with you fully on Billy's output getting into this as quickly as possible too. Billy is one of Britain's hidden music gems. Too hidden, again, in my view.

With all of these artists, the ability to preview online music files can only be a boon to the artist - it's like having a 1960's music shop booth at the end of your mouse. No more guesswork about what you are getting....and that has to be a good thing.

As a fan, the thing that has always impressed me about the legacy of Ultravox is the diversity and strength of the talents involved. In these three artists that strength has continued to grow along different paths and it would seem essential that there is accessibility to the work, through the most up-to-date methods.

I think I'll have a bit of a sit down now. LOL

viking

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#207 - Sun, 14 Nov 2004 01:06:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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A side thought: I'm assuming the new Band Aid will be available online?

viking

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#208 - Sun, 14 Nov 2004 02:44:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cerise Offline

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I've no idea! wink

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#209 - Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:06:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Oesterreicher II Offline
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As a bit of a technophobe, even I have to agree with the foregoing statements, reluctant though I'll be to actually utilise such agencies for obtaining "real" albums. I know I've done it with competition entries, but somehow that's not the same thing: an album has an identity, it has an image, and just down-loading the songs or tunes deprives me of that.

CDs were bad enough with their "little" art-work, I remember the thrill of the whole experience of buying Quartet and Lament on vinyl (I was a late starter at parting with money - I got the other albums retrospectively), excitedly imagining what the songs tasted like from the aesthetic of the cover, hurrying home to see if I was right, and it really influenced how I heard them and listened to them. If Quartet had had the cover to Lament, it would have been a different album, at least at first.

Maybe there's a market for downloading the music and then getting a link to download cover art and themes to go with it - which means that, theoretically, you could get more than you ever got with an LP, bar some of the wonderful textures. John might be a prime candidate for this with his pedigree, maybe?

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#210 - Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:31:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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Hi Oesterreicher II

Actually iTunes does allow you to have some sort of artwork downloaded along with your purchase (I'm not sure if the same applies to other online stores).

re: your view on whether or not the market is large for downloads. Currently it's reasonable-ish in size..but is growing quite rapidly. In time it'll probably be replaced by something else again. That'll be digital too.

And I think that's the point: things rarely remain the same.

Vinyl had a 'life' of about 70 years. CDs have had a life of about 20.

Video is replaced by DVD.

etc.

Like you; I really miss physical album artwork, particularly where John or Peter Saville were involved. And things change again.

In some ways the web has replaced album artwork.

If Ultravox were still producing today (...all pause for a Mexican Wave...!) this site would probably act as the artwork for many releases. The new re-jig by Cerise (hooray...again) uses design elements and colours from Rage In Eden.

Billy's site provides the 'liner notes' for his releases. Not so much Midge's or John's.

If John has taken the first steps online distribution steps, so probably, should Midge and Billy.

This isn't so much a question of choice but of neccessity. Digital of one form or another will continue to grow, that's unavoidable...massive Extinction Level Events permitting LOL

I have always been curious about John's relative lack of direct involvement in online art (..if anyone knows different, please tell!..). To each his own, eh? : )

viking

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#211 - Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:50:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
the church puddle Offline
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"I've seen no mention of Billy's take on this subject."

Thought this might be of interest:

emusic.com has a few Billy Currie albums for download. There is a monthly fee but I have downloaded tons of cool stuff from here, from Cat Power to Pete Namlook.

nervouslaugh

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#212 - Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:51:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Flip Martian Offline
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Usage of iTunes does alienate people with "older" versions of Windows on their PCs I believe.

If the brand spanking new printer I bought last month can be compatible with Win 98SE...and the apps I bought recently can be compatible with Win 98SE...then why can't iTunes? Stuuuuuupid....

Mr Puddle - what sort of stuff is on emusic? There's no way of telling before signing up for the free trial. Don't fancy giving anyone my CC details without seeing what's on offer...

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#213 - Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:05:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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There is the old vicious circle of software-pushes hardware-pushes software to upgrade frown

And, I've got to be honest, music subscription services give me the Willies! viking

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#214 - Mon, 15 Nov 2004 03:41:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Flip Martian Offline
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Nope. I don't have any need to. I chose 98SE 3 yrs ago when I got my new PC - many of my software/peripherals wouldn't have run on XP.

It still runs everything I want perfectly well - music apps, rip CDs, watch vids/DVDs, surf, play games, whatever. And I don't get affected by most of the new viruses that come out... laugh

Bill Gates says "you can only buy this new OS from now on but hey, its fulla holes and you'll need more memory/hardware to run your PC as well as your old OS did" and people say "yeah ok".

B****x... evil

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#215 - Mon, 15 Nov 2004 04:00:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
the church puddle Offline
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Hey Flip

re: emusic.com

Well, let's see, there is an awful lot of obscure stuff. My advice is to think of what/who you like and use the search engine, or you can browse within the genres BEFORE you sign up. My motivation was the huge amount of FAX label albums(Pete Namlook, etc, mostly ambient in nature) which were released at a stupid rate of one a fortnight or so back in the mid '90s. For me it was a no-brainer since it is very hard to find many of these. I believe there is also an alphabetical list of artists which you can browse through, tedious as this may sound. Broadband would help (I personally do not have it). Also, there are occasional copyright restrictions depending on where you live (for instance, an Arab Strap album was not available to the UK). There are a few Gary Numan albums on there and even something by Ultravox called "Ingenuity" which I am almost tempted to go near, despite my intuition. [Sorry Billy, love some of your solo stuff ...]

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#216 - Mon, 15 Nov 2004 04:01:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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Yo Flip

...and that's why I use a Mac! laugh

viking

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#217 - Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:06:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
apieceoffurniture Offline
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Registered: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 20:00:00
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I agree thats it great to have artwork with the music you buy and I remember years ago going into the record shop uptown in Brum and buying a 7" just from the looks of its cover . That was how I brought Transmission from Joy Division for instance .

Well I am now a IPOD owner .

The concept of having a mobile 1000 songs ( I have the mini) was just too much .

Love it..,,, arnie

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#218 - Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:06:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cerise Offline

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Gotta say I love my iPod, though at 10,000 songs (got the big bugger!), it STILL doesn't encompass all of the collection! I've come to the conclusion that I have way too many CDs. nervouslaugh

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#219 - Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:42:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Flip Martian Offline
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Church Puddle - cheers for that, I'll have another look (couldn't see how to browse the other day)!

Cromlech - OSX! :p wink Just kidding - there was far more music stuff available for PC when I started - a bit too far down the road to change now. Although, I've sometimes thought about it... smile

My player is a Creative Labs Zen Xtra - I got the 30 gb version which is enough for 16000+ tracks apparently...or put another way, about 500 albums (it says). It's fab and I'm a LONG way from filling it up yet - about 140 albums on there so far (plenty to go). And it was a darn sight cheaper than an iPod... Not quite as sexy looking , mind you, but sounds at least as good.

AND THE SOFTWARE RUNS ON WIN 98SE! biglaugh

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#220 - Wed, 17 Nov 2004 03:08:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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Flip

I wear my heart on my sleeve with computers: I love my Macs (at work and at home)!...not in the biblical sense, obviously smile ....yet.

I'm the last one to start trying to convert people - because that would practically be a topic by itself - but bear this in mind about a modern Mac running OSX: hardly any virii and, quite literally, one 'hard' crash per year (I'm not counting application crashes, but even they are rare...and they don't take the whole computer with 'em). And that isn't propaganda. It's fact.

Oh, and they aren't as expensive as they used to be. wink

Cerise: I'm with you on the iPod. What a beauty!

viking

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#221 - Wed, 17 Nov 2004 06:19:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Flip Martian Offline
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Cromlech - I forgive you. laugh

I feel the same way about my Creative Labs Zen Xtra...which is loads cheaper than an ipod (if you know where to buy) and sounds better (as long as you replace the standard headphones), has far longer battery life and an easily removable battery.

But people say "yeah, but the ipod's smaller and looks better". :rolleyes: wink

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#222 - Wed, 17 Nov 2004 23:50:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Steve Roby Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flip Martian:
what sort of stuff is on emusic?
Well, here are some artists I've downloaded legally through emusic, though a few may no longer be available:

!!!, 18th Dye, A Girl Called Eddy, Abbey Lincoln, Adolescents, Air Miami, Ait Bou Guemmez, Alpinestars, Amon Duul II, Amy Rigby, Andrea Parker, Angry Samoans, Anna Guo, Annbjorg Lien, Anthony Braxton, Apostolic Polyphony, April March, Art Tatum, Artie Shaw, Augustus Pablo, Bad Brains, Bardo Pond, Basque, Battalion Of Saints A.D., Bauhaus, Big Boys, Bill Evans, Bill Nelson, Billy Currie, Billy Currie & Steve Howe, Black Box Recorder, Black Randy & The Metrosquad, Blue States, Bolt Thrower, Brian Jonestown Massacre, Britta Phillips and Dean Wareham, Bulgari, Canyon, Cecil Taylor, Charles Mingus And Max Roach, Christian Death, Christian Marclay, Clannad, Cocteau Twins, Congo Norvell, Cowboy Nation, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Culture, Cybotron, D.O.A., Dagmar Krause, Dagmar Krause With Harold Schelinx and Ronald Heiloo, Dale Watson, Dalis Car, Dallas, David J, De Dannan, Death Cult, Dennis Brown, Diamanda Galas, Dif Juz, Dinky, Division Of Laura Lee, Dizzee Rascal, Donnacha Costello, Dot Allison, Down By Law, Dr. Israel, Dream City Film Club, Dressy Bessy, Drive Like Jehu, Dropkick Murphys, Duke Ellington, Dwight Yoakam, Echo and the Bunnymen, Echostar, Electrelane, Electronic, Elliott Smith, Epoxies, Eric Comstock, Eric Dolphy, Ester Drang, Ex Models, Experimental Audio Research, FM Knives, Fall Of Because, Fields of the Nephilim, Final, Flogging Molly, Flunk, Flux, Flying Saucer Attack, Foetus Corruptus, For Against, Frenchy, Future Bible Heroes, Gary Numan, Gary Numan And Tubeway Army, Gene Loves Jezebel, Gilbert and Lewis, Girls Against Boys, Glenn Branca, GoGoGo Airheart, Godflesh, Gregory Isaacs, Guided By Voices, Guitar Wolf, Hair & Skin Trading Company, Harold Budd, Harold Budd, Simon Raymonde, Robin Guthrie, Elizabeth Fraser, Heatmiser, Heidi Berry, His Name Is Alive, Hole, Honey Root, Hooker, Miller, Ranaldo, Hot Snakes, Hugh Cornwell, I Am The World Trade Center, Ice, Iggy And The Stooges, Inna And The Farlanders, Interpol, Isaac Hayes, Israel Vibration, Ivy, J.F.A., Jaki Byard, James Plotkin / Mick Harris, Jason & The Scorchers, Joe McPhee, Joe Strummer and the Mescaleros, Johanna Koukkunen, John Cale, John Fahey, Johnny Griffin, Jon Langford, Judge Dread, Judy Mowatt, Kamal, Mahieddine, Ksentini, and Aissa, Khaled, Killing Joke, Kim Gordon / Ikue Mori / DJ Olive, Komeda, Kraut, Kristin Hersh, Laika, Lata Mangeshkar, Laura Cantrell, Leadbelly, Lee Ranaldo, Lee Scratch Perry, Les Savy Fav, Lightnin' Hopkins, Lilys, Linval Thompson, Liquorice, Lisa Germano, Lisa Gerrard / Patrick Cassidy, Long Ryders, Loop, Love and Rockets, Lull, Lurkers, Lydia Lunch, M.J. Harris And Bill Laswell, Maddy Prior, Main, Marcia Griffiths, Martha And The Muffins, Merle Haggard, Merle Travis, Metamatics, Michael Brook, Midge Ure, Midnight Movies, Million Dollar Marxists, Mission of Burma, Modern Lovers, Mogwai, Mojave 3, Mokhira, Mortiis, Napalm Death, New Bomb Turks, New York Dolls, Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds, Nile, Norken, Novel 23, Ofra Haza, Old, On! Air! Library!, Operation Ivy, Ornette Coleman, Otis Spann, Oum Kalthoum, P.J. Harvey, Pale Saints, Pandoras, Patricia Barber, Paul D. Miller (DJ Spooky), Pavement, Peaches, Pentangle, Philip Cave And Alan Crumpler, Piano Magic, Planxty, Porter Hall, TN, Psychic TV, Qaballah Steppers, R.L. Burnside, Rachel Goswell, Radio 4, Ray Charles, Richard Hell, Richard Hell And The Voidoids, Richard Thompson, Rocket From The Crypt, SIANspheric, SNFU, Saint Etienne, Samiam, Satan's Cheerleaders, Scorn, Seely, Servotron, Sex Gang Children, Shadow Project, Shriekback, Silly Wizard, Sirinu, Slapp Happy, Snowpony, Solas, Solomon Burke, Sonic Youth, Spiny Anteaters, Spirea X, Steeleye Span, Stew, Stiv Bators, Subvision And Guy Gross, Suicidal Tendencies, Susannah McCorkle, Swell Maps, Tanya Donelly, Techno Animal, Ted Leo and the Pharmacists, Teenage Fanclub, Terre Thaemlitz, The Barbarellas, The Beards, The Blackbyrds, The Bloodthirsty Lovers, The Cecil Taylor Unit, The Church, The Creatures, The Cult, The Delgados, The Distillers, The Dream Syndicate, The Exploding Hearts, The Eyeliners, The Fall, The French Kicks, The GC5, The Go-Betweens, The Godz, The John Doe Thing, The Kinks, The Last, The Lisa Marr Experiment, The Mighty Diamonds, The New Pornographers, The Pixies, The Raveonettes, The Residents, The Sadies, The Southern Death Cult, The Soviettes, The Spotlight Syndicate, The Swords Project, The Vexers, The Warlocks, The Wedding Present, The Weirdos, Theatre Of Hate, Thelonious Monk And John Coltrane, Theoretical Girls, Thin White Rope, This Mortal Coil, Three O'Clock, Throwing Muses, Tindersticks, Tones on Tail, Trinity Baroque, The Forbury Consort And The Holbein Consort, Tubeway Army, Tuxedomoon, Two Dollar Pistols With Tift Merritt, Ultra Vivid Scene, Ultravox, Urinals, Velocette (Beggars), Vic Godard And The Subway Sect, Violet Indiana, Wailing Souls, Watchers, Wipers, Xerophonics, Xmal Deutschland, Zeros, Zounds.

Emusic is pretty good for punk, electronic, jazz, and indie stuff. No major label stuff, though. Top 40 fans need not apply, obviously...

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#223 - Thu, 18 Nov 2004 03:06:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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Bloody hell, Steve!

...any chance of getting that list in chronological order? wink laugh

viking

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#224 - Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:24:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Herbert the turbot Offline
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Registered: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:00:00
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Call me a luddite, but life's too short for spending your days downloading hundreds of songs you'll probably only ever listen to once.

If I like an artist, I go to a place called a record shop where I can buy a copy of their CD complete with cover art; a tangible product that won't suddenly vanish the day my hard drive has a fit. :-)

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#225 - Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:28:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Craig Offline
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Registered: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 20:00:00
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Wot's a CD? Is it like a gramaphone record? Mr Roby, got any Vera Lynn?

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#226 - Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:37:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
METAL BEAT Offline
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Registered: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:00:00
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Loc: Watford
Hi
Call me old fashioned.
Vinyl and CD's are something I can hold, feel, see and get emotional with <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />
I love the art work of vinyl single and album covers (any artist). I like the Ultravox and Johns solo albums except 3 into 1 which is C**P. I know it's a pain change 7 inch singles every 3 to 4 minutes. The sound of the occasional scratch gives vinyl something a little extra. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />
For me CD's are a great invention. Great sound and easy to use but the art work leaves a lot to be desired. banghead
I rest my case.
Regards
Peter

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#227 - Fri, 19 Nov 2004 01:39:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Cromlech Offline
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Herb.....baby!

Ever thought of just downloading only the songs you want??

Just a thought.

viking

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#228 - Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:29:00 Re: Crash and Burn now available via iTunes!?
Flip Martian Offline
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Blimey Steve, I hope you cut and pasted that lot! Cheers! smile

Herbert - who spends all day d/ling? I just leave my broadband thing on at night and it works while I sleep...

And I've discovered loads of music I wouldn't otherwise have heard as some of it just isn't IN my LOCAL RECORD SHOP....

Loads of people have heard mine for example (for better or worse - by d/ling it. Why cut yourself off from such a rich supply of stuff? Er, by that I don't mean MY stuff necessarily... wink

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